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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:41 am 
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A complete stitch-up: US company using US legal system to maintain competitive edge.

The judge refused Samsung to submit a ton of evidence as it was put forward too late. So the juror's decision isn't based on the whole facts.

Stinks.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:46 am 
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Apparently the Tokyo court have ruled in Samsung's favour, saying they did not infringe on Apple patents.

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But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:18 am 
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Tokyo court gives win to Samsung after US loss

Apple iPhone 4s and Samsung Galaxy S The ruling was for a patent related to synchronising music and video data between devices and computers



A court in Tokyo has ruled that Samsung Electronics did not infringe on patents held by Apple, a victory for the South Korean company.

The patent was related to transferring media content between devices.

It comes after Samsung lost a key patent case in the US last week and was ordered to pay more than $1bn (£664m) in damages.

This is one of many cases brought to courts around the world by the two smartphone market leaders.

"We welcome the court's decision, which confirmed our long-held position that our products do not infringe Apple's intellectual property," said Samsung in a statement to the BBC.

Tokyo District Judge Tamotsu Shoji dismissed the case filed by Apple in August, finding that Samsung was not in violation of Apple patents related to synchronising music and video data between devices and servers.
Sales ban

On 24 August, a US court ruled Samsung had infringed Apple patents for mobile devices, including the iPhone and iPad.

The company has vowed to continue to fight against Apple saying it will appeal against the US ruling.

Apple is now seeking a ban on sales of eight Samsung phones in the US market.

On 6 December, US District Judge Lucy Koh, who presided over the initial trial, will hear Apple's plea for an injunction against the Samsung phones, although it does not include the most recent Samsung phone to hit the market, the Galaxy S3.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:54 am 
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US federal appeals court reverses Galaxy Nexus sales ban

A California court had imposed sales injunction as a result of Apple's lawsuit.


by Cyrus Farivar - Arstechnica.com




The United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit has overturned (PDF) the preliminary injunction that forbade sales of the Samsung Galaxy Nexus.

In late June, following a lawsuit filed by Apple earlier this year, a California court granted an injunction against Samsung that banned the sale of the Galaxy Nexus in the United States. The two companies have been undergoing a massive worldwide judicial battle over patents for several months.

“We hold that the district court abused its discretion in determining that Apple established a sufficient causal nexus,” the court wrote on Thursday.

This appeal focused specifically on Patent 8,086,604, which deals with search interface.

“The causal nexus requirement is not satisfied simply because removing an allegedly infringing component would leave a particular feature, application, or device less valued or inoperable,” the court added.

“A laptop computer, for example, will not work (or work long enough) without a battery, cooling fan, or even the screws that may hold its frame together, and its value would be accordingly depreciated should those components be removed. That does not mean, however, that every such component is ‘core’ to the operation of the machine, let alone that each component is the driver of consumer demand. To establish a sufficiently strong causal nexus, Apple must show that consumers buy the Galaxy Nexus because it is equipped with the apparatus claimed in the ’604 patent—not because it can search in general, and not even because it has unified search.




Common sense prevailed it seems. :ohmy: :fonz:

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:30 pm 
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All of the claims and counter-claims are so ridiculously tedious. They really need to put a stop to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Serbinator wrote:
All of the claims and counter-claims are so ridiculously tedious. They really need to put a stop to it.


Exactly right, and many are hoping that this is where the ridiculous posturing and counter-posturing is heading.

Let's face it, nobody is going to want the expense, hassle or bad PR that suing everybody generates and the future legal hassles it brings. It's like Apple don't give a flip 'cause they only really have the iStuff that sells well so they're doing all they can to protect their current position with no thought to the future, whereas other companies who actually innovate and make new stuff from time to time wouldn't want to upset the rest of the industry because they'd get sued in return every time they make something new.

But with rare and sensible slap downs like that, it can only discourage the likes of Apple from using the patent system to try to influence markets - something the people in charge of this stuff seem very keen to prevent afaik, I've read the call has gone out to sort it out but what will happen or how long it'll take is anybody's guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:36 am 
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In post-trial battles with Samsung, Apple fights to keep documents sealed

Judge orders Apple to reveal per-product profits; an appeals court will rule.


by Joe Mullin - Arstechnica.com



Just several weeks ago, Apple won a huge patent victory in the courtroom of US District Judge Lucy Koh. But now the company is finding itself on the defensive in the same San Jose courtroom, in a different battle—the fight to keep its financial information secret.

Today, Koh denied Apple's request to seal a variety of documents tied to its financial performance. The redacted documents include "product-specific unit sales, revenue, profit, profit margin, and cost data" that would bolster Apple's arguments for more damages.

The figures are important to Apple, because it wants a serious heap of cash added on to the jury's already enormous verdict, which, if it stands, would be the largest patent verdict in history. Apple is looking for an extra $535 million in damages in addition to the $1.05 billion awarded by the jury, and it also wants a variety of Samsung products kicked off the market; Samsung, meanwhile, wants a new trial, and claims that the jury foreman wasn't truthful about his history of lawsuits and view of the patent system.

As a company, Apple reports its profits regularly; but those profits are typically not broken out by product. Even numbers like how many iPod touches were sold in the US weren't revealed until they were shown during the Apple v. Samsung trial, and eagerly recorded by the small army of reporters who congregated each day in the back rows of the San Jose courtroom.

In an order [PDF] issued today, Koh said that Apple can't use its financial data to try to win remedies from the courts, while also keeping the information secret from the public.

"As Apple appears to have realized in introducing that exhibit, it cannot both use its financial data to seek multi-billion dollar damages and insist on keeping it secret," wrote Koh. "The public’s interest in accessing Apple’s financial information is now perhaps even greater than it was at trial." The remedies sought by Apple, "would have a profound effect on the smartphone industry, consumers, and the public... Beyond continuing to assert that its financial data are 'trade secrets,' Apple has not provided any new arguments for why this information should be protected."

The information won't be forthcoming immediately. Koh has agreed not to enact the unsealing until her order is reviewed by the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, the higher court which handles all patent cases. A similar order that Koh issued on Aug. 9, which would unseal different documents, has already been kicked up to the Federal Circuit for appellate review as well.

Concern about media and public access during the case was acute, with one news agency, Reuters, actually hiring its own attorney to intervene in the case. Before trial, Reuters filed motions that asked for a wide array of documents to be unsealed, an unusual (and expensive) move for a media organization covering a civil trial. Koh's close scrutiny of all the data that Apple and Samsung want to seal is surely connected to that extra media attention. As with this year's other big tech trial, the Oracle v. Google showdown in San Francisco, media were promptly given exhibits at the end of the day's trial action. (This is far from a regular practice, unfortunately.)

Now that the issue has gone to an appeals court, more open-access advocates are getting involved. The First Amendment Coalition filed a brief with the Federal Circuit, arguing that the data Apple wants to conceal aren't true trade secrets. On top of that, even true trade secrets "must be disclosed unless there are compelling reasons to keep them under wraps."

A separate brief arguing for upholding Koh's decision to unseal the documents was filed by the Reporters' Committee for the Freedom of the Press. Several major media organizations signed on to that brief, including Bloomberg, Dow Jones, The New York Times Company, and The Washington Post.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:44 am 
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Don't think you should be able to submit evidence and keep it a secret at the same time. Very dodgy imo.

I wonder if this could be damaging to Apple?

First of all, I wonder what the affect would be on the general public. As it stands, the guestimated figures of how much Apple make per product unit are just that - estimates and informed guesses - so it never really gets much headline space 'cause it's not provable... but should Apple have to release the figures, people will know how much they're putting in the bank each time somebody buys something, and they'll find out how overpriced this stuff is and how Apple are gross profiteering on this iTrend... can't imagine they'll be that impressed tbh.

Also, I can't help wondering if Apple bigging up how much profit it makes per unit to try and get more damages will contradict their tax returns - where they've probably made them appear as small as possible. Even if it's legal avoidance it's no doubt immoral and isn't going to make them look good. :snigger:

You can see why Apple want to keep it a secret, but I hope they can't and the info gets released to the public.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:31 am 
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People must already know that Apple are pocketing a huge wad of cash per product sold, I don't see that really putting people off of buying if they prefer it to the competition.

Being worried about what the tax man might think on the other hand is entirely plausible. These big companies are always avoiding as much tax as they can, I heard the other day that Starbucks has paid no tax in the UK for 3 years...!!

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But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:08 am 
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Spawny wrote:
People must already know that Apple are pocketing a huge wad of cash per product sold, I don't see that really putting people off of buying if they prefer it to the competition.

Being worried about what the tax man might think on the other hand is entirely plausible. These big companies are always avoiding as much tax as they can, I heard the other day that Starbucks has paid no tax in the UK for 3 years...!!


Oh I dunno... if people found out that their £500+ iPhone only really cost around £90-£100 to make and that they're paying all that extra money just for the shiny, shiny badge and the sake of Apple's profits they might not be too impressed. We all expect companies to make a profit, but that's a very high markup by any measure so I don't think any publicity it attracts will be positive... that's their big problem. Regardless of whether it puts people off or not, people will still be more aware that it's overpriced than they are now, clearly not something Apple would welcome.

But I think you're right, and that Starbucks story sound very familiar... they're all at it! Even United are loss making now and pay less tax despite record amounts of cash pouring in. :ninja: As you know, companies like these often have an office in a tax haven somewhere that earns all the profits and allegedly 'owns' all the right parts of the business, while the US/UK office merely 'owns' the bills and costly parts of the business that make a loss every year so that any tax paid is absolutely minimal if any. It'd be very interesting to see how the two different versions of how much they make per device compare. :evil:

For that reason alone you have to hope that the court makes this information public. Besides, if Apple want to use it as evidence in a public trial then it has to be made public imho.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:17 am 
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conscience wrote:
Oh I dunno... if people found out that their £500+ iPhone only really cost around £90-£100 to make and that they're paying all that extra money just for the shiny, shiny badge and the sake of Apple's profits they might not be too impressed. We all expect companies to make a profit, but that's a very high markup by any measure so I don't think any publicity it attracts will be positive... that's their big problem. Regardless of whether it puts people off or not, people will still be more aware that it's overpriced than they are now, clearly not something Apple would welcome.

But I think you're right, and that Starbucks story sound very familiar... they're all at it! Even United are loss making now and pay less tax despite record amounts of cash pouring in. :ninja: As you know, companies like these often have an office in a tax haven somewhere that earns all the profits and allegedly 'owns' all the right parts of the business, while the US/UK office merely 'owns' the bills and costly parts of the business that make a loss every year so that any tax paid is absolutely minimal if any. It'd be very interesting to see how the two different versions of how much they make per device compare. :evil:

For that reason alone you have to hope that the court makes this information public. Besides, if Apple want to use it as evidence in a public trial then it has to be made public imho.


Oh they wouldn't be impressed for sure, but people will still pay a premium for a badge and a product they like. That's why someone will pay £500 for a Sony TV when an Alba one with the same spec will go for £350, or why someone will pay £50k for a BMW instead of £30k for a Ford Mondeo.

Oh sure, they all play that game. Vodafone were publicly outed for doing it around the time that David Cameron was slating Jimmy Carr. Funny how big businesses get away with it!!

Will certainly be interesting to see what is revealed, if Apple have to start supplying to retailers cheaper then it's going to hurt them big time.

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Spawny wrote:
But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:36 am 
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Spawny wrote:
Oh they wouldn't be impressed for sure, but people will still pay a premium for a badge and a product they like. That's why someone will pay £500 for a Sony TV when an Alba one with the same spec will go for £350, or why someone will pay £50k for a BMW instead of £30k for a Ford Mondeo.

Oh sure, they all play that game. Vodafone were publicly outed for doing it around the time that David Cameron was slating Jimmy Carr. Funny how big businesses get away with it!!

Will certainly be interesting to see what is revealed, if Apple have to start supplying to retailers cheaper then it's going to hurt them big time.


That's not really a fair comparison imo, Alba built absolute junk, and while Sony's electronics had built in kill switches so they didn't last too long, they were pretty decent spec. And a Mondeo is slightly inferior to the BMW whereas Apple isn't better than Android, it's just the badge. Apple are more like a Sony badge on the Mondeo imo. But point taken, you're right that people will often pay more for a trendy brand than they ordinarily would. It's a strange phenomenon really, more to do with fashion and social pressures of the herd all wanting the same thing as their perceived 'trendy' mates.

They let Vodafone off didn't they? £6Bn just given away. :hmm: At the same time as they're cutting housing benefit for the disabled. But that's another rant entirely....

Dunno if Apple would lower the price, just might create some bad feeling with consumers who know the true cost of the shiny badge vs better value for money with a rival device, which might in turn lower their ability to charge such a high premium. In times of recession, value is much more important to buyers who have less money to go around so it's the worst possible time to risk making them feel ripped off by revealing your x hundred percent profit margins. But it'd take an awful lot to make them even consider it, so don't hold your breath for a cut-price sale at Apple any time soon!

I know anecdotal evidence counts for little, but I read an article by a techie journalist who'd asked his kids what new smartphone they wanted... and they asked for Samsungs. Apple aren't seen as cool anymore, because the kids see their parents using them and definitely don't want the same one themselves. It's the Jeremy Clarkson effect, that Levi blamed their bankruptcy on! Nobody wanted to be seen in the same jeans as some old bloke who looked like their dad/grandad. Cool is a fickle mistress, and anything that could erode the general perception of Apple's coolness could be a disaster RE their premium business model and their earning potential... and tax implications aside, that's exactly why Apple don't want this information making public imho - simply to protect their cool factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:47 am 
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conscience wrote:
That's not really a fair comparison imo, Alba built absolute junk, and while Sony's electronics had built in kill switches so they didn't last too long, they were pretty decent spec. And a Mondeo is slightly inferior to the BMW whereas Apple isn't better than Android, it's just the badge. Apple are more like a Sony badge on the Mondeo imo. But point taken, you're right that people will often pay more for a trendy brand than they ordinarily would. It's a strange phenomenon really, more to do with fashion and social pressures of the herd all wanting the same thing as their perceived 'trendy' mates.

They let Vodafone off didn't they? £6Bn just given away. :hmm: At the same time as they're cutting housing benefit for the disabled. But that's another rant entirely....

Dunno if Apple would lower the price, just might create some bad feeling with consumers who know the true cost of the shiny badge vs better value for money with a rival device, which might in turn lower their ability to charge such a high premium. In times of recession, value is much more important to buyers who have less money to go around so it's the worst possible time to risk making them feel ripped off by revealing your x hundred percent profit margins. But it'd take an awful lot to make them even consider it, so don't hold your breath for a cut-price sale at Apple any time soon!

I know anecdotal evidence counts for little, but I read an article by a techie journalist who'd asked his kids what new smartphone they wanted... and they asked for Samsungs. Apple aren't seen as cool anymore, because the kids see their parents using them and definitely don't want the same one themselves. It's the Jeremy Clarkson effect, that Levi blamed their bankruptcy on! Nobody wanted to be seen in the same jeans as some old bloke who looked like their dad/grandad. Cool is a fickle mistress, and anything that could erode the general perception of Apple's coolness could be a disaster RE their premium business model and their earning potential... and tax implications aside, that's exactly why Apple don't want this information making public imho - simply to protect their cool factor.


Well whatever brand you use as a comparison, a lot of the cheaper tech brands use the same components as the big guys, and are made by the same contract manufacturers too. Only difference is a badge.

Yeah, massive recession, cutting benefits to the average man, and a big company gets let off a huge tax bill... it's diabolical.

Oh for sure they wont be knocking the things out half price or anything, but it gives retailers a position whereby, if they stick together, they can force the wholesale prices down. Whether any of those savings would be passed to the consumer, or you'd just see o2, Vodafone, and co pocket bigger margins themselves would remain to be seen.

That's a fair point... maybe we can club together and get Clarkson every piece of iCrap and get him to use them on telly... we'd ruin Apple :fonz:

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But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Apple handed victory in Samsung text-selection patent case

Full ITC panel to decide in August if Sammy's kit should be banned


By Rik Myslewski • The Register



The US International Trade Commission (USITC) has handed Apple a preliminary victory in one of its many disputes with Samsung, ruling that the Korean electronics giant did, indeed, infringe upon a patent relating to text selection.

The patent in question, RE41,922, is entitled "Method and apparatus for providing translucent images on a computer display." In it's unusually long 50 pages of text and illustrations, the patent describes "blending" a translucent overlay onto a base image, then operating on that thus-selected base in some fashion.

According to a report by Reuters on Friday afternoon, an ITC judge has ruled that Samsung did infringe on that patent, but not another patent in dispute that related to the detection of a a microphone or other device is plugged into a device's input jack. As of Friday afternoon, the ruling had not yet been posted on the ITC's website.

The ruling will now go before the full commission, which will decide whether or not to accept it. Its decision is expected this August.

If it does accept the ruling, the ITC can bar the importation of infringing Samsung kit into the US. Since the case was filed in mid-2011, it's not likely that any of Samsung's current best-sellers are in danger of being locked out of the US market – Reuters refers to "Samsung's Galaxy, Transform and Nexus devices, among others" as being subject to the ban, but offers no specifics.

Apple has been doing well at the ITC in its global patent was with Samsung. Last September, for example, iCupertino won a four-patent ruling, successfully defending itself against Samsung's charges that it had infringed on patents relating to CDMA systems, packet-data reliability, phone-number dialing, and digital-document user interfaces.

At that time, a trade-case lawyer told Bloomberg, "Apple at the ITC is bulletproof. Nobody can get any traction against them there. The lesson is, if you want to get relief against Apple, it's going to have to be in a foreign forum where it doesn't have the clout or the cachet it has at the ITC or the northern district of California."

As of Friday's ruling, that does indeed appear to be the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:35 pm 
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How on earth can anyone hold a patent for such trivial functionality as text selection or highlighting text? :blink:

How and why Apple continue to get away with patenting things that already existed decades before just by adding "...for a mobile device" is beyond me. Whether the patent office/ITC really are that stupid, or just on the Apple payroll I can only guess.

Besides, if Apple were genuine, they'd ask for x patent to be removed from infringing products not demand a US sales ban every time, that just smells of desperation imo. Apple are just lashing at at a competitor that's selling more stuff. Not that it will affect anything recent by Samsung, just stuff from mid-2011.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple vs Android: Patent Wars
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iPHONES and 'Pads BANNED in US for violating Samsung patent

60-day countdown for presidential veto


By Iain Thomson - The Register



Updated Apple is facing an ITC embargo on imports of older iPhone 4 and iPads after Samsung successfully convinced the trade body that Cupertino had infringed on a single one of its patents.

The patent, No. 7,706,348, covers coding and decoding of wireless signals within the CDMA architecture, and the ban will stop Apple from importing and selling iPhone 4, 3GS, and 3G models, as well as the cellular versions of Apple's iPad and iPad 2 lines in the US.

"The Commission has determined that the appropriate remedy is a limited exclusion order and a cease and desist order prohibiting Apple from importing into the United States or selling or distributing within the United States wireless communication devices, portable music and data processing devices, and tablet computers that infringe claims," the finding states.

As with all ITC bans, the lockdown won't start unless President Obama gives the all-clear. The president (who prefers to use a BlackBerry personally) has 60 days to decide the issue.

This is a setback for Apple, which had been feeling confident of its progress with the ITC after last year's ruling that it was in the clear of infringing Samsung's patents. A review of that decision has led to the ban, but Apple can take some comfort that the ITC cleared it of violating Samsung's packet-data reliability, phone-number dialing, and digital-document user interface patents.

The question for President Obama is now if he will sign-off on the ban within his 60-day time limit. Last year, Apple employees gave $308,081 to Obama's last reelection campaign, and several might be wanting their money back if the ban comes into place.

Update

"We believe the ITC’s Final Determination has confirmed Apple’s history of free-riding on Samsung’s technological innovations," a Samsung spokesman told El Reg in a statement.

"Our decades of research and development in mobile technologies will continue, and we will continue to offer innovative products to consumers in the United States."

No word from Apple yet but plans to appeal the verdict have been reported.

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