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 Post subject: Re: New Valve games console
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:29 am 
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borocooper wrote:
It'll be the flop of flops if they stick that price on it. Wait a year and you can have your new playstation or xbox for about half that... Who are they appealing to? Hardcore gamers with that kind of cash to spend will just get themselves a top end PC or wait for the new generation consoles and get a load of launch titles.. Casual fans wouldn't even entertain it. "Trend followers" (can't think of a better term) won't be looking at it either...


Rich and trendy hardcore gamers I assume? It's cool more than it's desirable I agree, it's just too expensive as it is, but just lowering the price could change all that...

Plus, once they've solved all the hard engineering problems such as squeezing all that hardware into a shiny box, dealing with the inevitable heat and noise issues, etc., then it could be much easier for Valve to get their box launched at a more realistic price as effectively all the R&D etc. will be complete and ready for them to use.

Dunno why Valve don't just rebadge a mid-range PC with their logo (well if it'll work for Sony/MS lol) and install Linux/Steam and get to work porting and writing new games for it. If they can encourage enough developers to follow them then anything could happen.

As a gamer I'm always open to new options, I'll just dual boot Win7/Linux+Steam if it takes off.

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 Post subject: Re: New Valve games console
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 am 
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I'm not sure there are hardcore trendy gamers.. By definition I think hardcore gamers want the best that money can get them. And this wouldn't be it...

There are those who just buy whatever is new because they like gadgets but they're obviously a minority.

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 Post subject: Re: New Valve games console
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:26 am 
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conscience wrote:
Spawny wrote:
No I can't see it selling at $1k, that's gaming PC money, so why buy something that's not a gaming PC?

The next PS and Xbox will probably be $400-$500 at launch, and there's speculation that new games are likely to rise from the current $60 standard price to $70 when the new generation hits.


Agreed, it's not worth the money. Same story with laptops vs a full-size desktop PC, but the price always tends to shoot up when they try and squeeze something into boxes that are too small/trendy/silent.

And Sony will have to be careful with their launch price, unlike last time! :doh: Also, their Vita handheld has bombed and has just had to be cut by $100 by US retailers trying to boost sales who are only copying Sony's own Japanese price cuts earlier in the week. Vita has been selling @ 10k-15k units per week compared to about 70k for Nintendo's DS. Ouch.

Heard about the games price rises, and obviously I don't really think it's going to go down too well during a worldwide recession when everybody is watching what they spend.


Same story with anything Apple make :D

I thought Vita sales were on the up, probably as a result of the price rise. Not that I've paid much attention to this generation of handhelds, the DS was a class bit of kit, but the 3DS doesn't really appeal, and I stopped using the PSP when I moved in with the missus as I only really used it to play FIFA when I was away from a console. On a side note Nintendo have just lost a patent case for the tech used in the 3DS and ordered to pay $30m to an ex-Sony guy who patented it.

I still think that lowering game prices will improve the market, and will negate the appeal of used games. If you go from $60 to $50 then more people will be prepared to take a punt on a game that looks good, and you kill some of the margin that stores can make on used copies... which will lessen the appeal of second hand, which the publishers want to happen, so the price rise makes no sense IMO.

Steam games are over-priced most of the time as well, outside of their sales which sometimes have good offers. Still far cheaper to buy a PC game from somewhere like Amazon and then install it, sadly an ever increasing number require Steam to play at all.

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But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


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 Post subject: Re: New Valve games console
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:30 am 
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A quad core AMD and a Radeon 7k series are nowhere near high-end kit, looking at what is out there currently. You have Intel multi core (anything greater than 4 core) available to the consumer in their LGA 2011 line up. The 3930K and 3960X, are the CPU of choice for the Hardcore gamer. (Although the 3960X is $1,000 more or less off the bat).

NVidia have just released the Titan. A single GPU reworked from their Tesla K20 HPC unit. Which in terms of teraflops and the rest are mental. But again another $1,000 cost. But these are the 'real hardcore' products available put there at the moment. These pump out heat like no-ones business so putting them in a micro case would not yet be possible. These are the must have sku's for the high end though.

From what I am reading for either MS, Sony, Valve or Piston, it is looking like press releases are singing the praises of inferior kit.

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 Post subject: Re: New Valve games console
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:05 am 
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the nut's named eric wrote:
A quad core AMD and a Radeon 7k series are nowhere near high-end kit...

From what I am reading for either MS, Sony, Valve or Piston, it is looking like press releases are singing the praises of inferior kit.


You're not wrong, but it seems many IT journalists only have the press releases rather than any actual hardware knowledge.

No doubt these mid-range, locked down PCs will be hyped beyond belief too just like their predecessors, but I still mostly expect the feature list to be yet more social networking stuff rather than anything genuinely new or innovative. :yawn:

The pricing will be interesting though. If it's too high gamers might as well just buy a normal PC or some rival like Valve, Ouya, or whoever.

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 Post subject: Re: New Valve games console
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:14 am 
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Spawny wrote:
I thought Vita sales were on the up, probably as a result of the price rise. Not that I've paid much attention to this generation of handhelds, the DS was a class bit of kit...

On a side note Nintendo have just lost a patent case for the tech used in the 3DS and ordered to pay $30m to an ex-Sony guy who patented it.

I still think that lowering game prices will improve the market, and will negate the appeal of used games. If you go from $60 to $50 then more people will be prepared to take a punt on a game that looks good, and you kill some of the margin that stores can make on used copies... which will lessen the appeal of second hand, which the publishers want to happen, so the price rise makes no sense IMO.

Steam games are over-priced most of the time as well, outside of their sales which sometimes have good offers. Still far cheaper to buy a PC game from somewhere like Amazon and then install it, sadly an ever increasing number require Steam to play at all.


Last I saw, Vita was picking up a bit but then which system didn't get a sales boost around Christmas :rolleyes: - but not by as much as Sony predicted. What we do know is Sony had projected about 10 million worldwide sales for the PlayStation Vita by March 2013 and got less than 2.2m by February 2013. Ouch.

Unless Sony give it a little more backing and promotion it'll remain behind too imo, though the price cut may help especially if UK retailers follow the lead of Sony Japan and US retailers. £200 is still too much for a handheld these days it seems, as the ubiquitous mobile phone has pretty much wrapped up the casual gaming market.

Nintendo did have to pay for some 3D glasses-free technology but I've not seen the patent details so i dunno whether it's a fair judgement or not. In any case, $30m won't scare Nintendo, at worst it's just a tad embarrassing for them.

I expect no second hand market will collapse the life of hardware as it does with software. Pages like this make for very interesting depressing reading. Buy from Steam and get ripped off and OTT DRM, buy from EA and get Origin and your games functionality turned off after just a year or two.

If that's the way gaming is going, gamers will have to stop spending their money with the likes of Valve and EA to bring about change. Corporations only ever listen if you vote with your wallet. Also you'd avoid their idiotic online only type deal which was the disaster that was Sim City 2013, where users are being offered a 'free' game in return for letting EA keep their money for the mess that is their new game. The departure of EA's CEO John Riccitiello is sudden to say the least. :snigger:

You're right, Amazon remains the best place to buy PC games but I hate/return them when they forcibly bundle Steam with it, it should be clearly labelled on the packaging. It's not like Steam's DRM makes any difference anyway as an awful lot of cracked games are the Steam version with it simply removed so it just punishes honest, paying customers as always happens with any form of DRM.

I just wish everyone else did the same so we could get shut of DRM once and for all.

Back on topic: Obviously they'll need to get the RRP spot on if they want a new system to succeed against the very well established PC or even PS3/Xbox360 markets, so there's work to be done. But I am loving the competition and choice for the next gen compared to just a couple of systems from the major players which can only be good news for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: New Valve games console
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:40 am 
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conscience wrote:
Last I saw, Vita was picking up a bit but then which system didn't get a sales boost around Christmas :rolleyes: - but not by as much as Sony predicted. What we do know is Sony had projected about 10 million worldwide sales for the PlayStation Vita by March 2013 and got less than 2.2m by February 2013. Ouch.

Unless Sony give it a little more backing and promotion it'll remain behind too imo, though the price cut may help especially if UK retailers follow the lead of Sony Japan and US retailers. £200 is still too much for a handheld these days it seems, as the ubiquitous mobile phone has pretty much wrapped up the casual gaming market.

Nintendo did have to pay for some 3D glasses-free technology but I've not seen the patent details so i dunno whether it's a fair judgement or not. In any case, $30m won't scare Nintendo, at worst it's just a tad embarrassing for them.

I expect no second hand market will collapse the life of hardware as it does with software. Pages like this make for very interesting depressing reading. Buy from Steam and get ripped off and OTT DRM, buy from EA and get Origin and your games functionality turned off after just a year or two.

If that's the way gaming is going, gamers will have to stop spending their money with the likes of Valve and EA to bring about change. Corporations only ever listen if you vote with your wallet. Also you'd avoid their idiotic online only type deal which was the disaster that was Sim City 2013, where users are being offered a 'free' game in return for letting EA keep their money for the mess that is their new game. The departure of EA's CEO John Riccitiello is sudden to say the least. :snigger:

You're right, Amazon remains the best place to buy PC games but I hate/return them when they forcibly bundle Steam with it, it should be clearly labelled on the packaging. It's not like Steam's DRM makes any difference anyway as an awful lot of cracked games are the Steam version with it simply removed so it just punishes honest, paying customers as always happens with any form of DRM.

I just wish everyone else did the same so we could get shut of DRM once and for all.

Back on topic: Obviously they'll need to get the RRP spot on if they want a new system to succeed against the very well established PC or even PS3/Xbox360 markets, so there's work to be done. But I am loving the competition and choice for the next gen compared to just a couple of systems from the major players which can only be good news for everyone.


That's a pretty poor return :doh: I honestly think Nintendo nailed the handheld market with the DS. It was a bit different, not too expensive, and had some great games. The rise of mobile gaming, which will only increase with the power of smart phones and the adoption of tablets is going to be tough for Sony and Nintendo to fight.

Sure $30m isn't the end of the world, but with sales of the Wii U well behind forecast levels, and their last financial year being a bit of a disaster (if memory serves me) it's not a time where they need a hefty compensation to pay and the negative publicity. They're not Apple, whose image doesn't seem to suffer whatever they do.

Always on for single player games makes no sense, I believe Ubisoft are another one who are pretty bad for their DRM and only being able to play if you're online. The Sim City launch problems are unforgivable, people being unable to play for days, having their cities deleted... it was a farce. There is no legitimate reason to make people play online if they want to play a single player game.

Steam is becoming harder and harder to avoid when it comes to PC games, which is unfortunate. I have to be honest, I don't like Steam but if there's a game that I really want to play then I'll put up with it.

Competition is great, if the prices for these Steam box things are right then maybe they'll compete, but the price of games on Steam could be prohibitive too. I looked on there late last year for Formula 1 2011 (the previous year's F1 games as F1 2012 had just come out). It was 35 quid... 35 quid for a brand new PC game is expensive, for a year old one which already has a sequel out it's baffling.

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idontfeardeath wrote:
Spawny wrote:
But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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