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 Post subject: Saints Go Marchin' On
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:24 am 
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Southampton are likely to fold before the end of the season unless a buyer for the ailing Coca-Cola Championship club can be found.

The company which owns the south-coast club, Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, have gone into administration with chairman, Rupert Lowe, resigning.

Club chairman Michael Wilde and director Andrew Cowen have also left both the company and the club, with recovery and restructuring specialists Begbies Traynor placed in charge.

And joint-administrator Mark Fry admits the outlook is bleak for Saints, who are more than £30million in debt and in danger of being relegated to League One.

"If we don't find a buyer for the club there is a very, very high probability that it will not last until the end of the season. Realistically it will mean the end of the football club," Fry said.

"It's a very different economic climate from two years ago and football clubs have fallen as hard as anything. It's a difficult task but we will search very hard for a buyer.

"And I would say that anyone looking to buy the club will find it a lot cheaper than it would have been two years ago."

Controversial former chairman Lowe is, according to Fry, unlikely to be among any potential buyers.

"We would welcome an approach from anybody, but as far as I am informed Rupert Lowe has not shown an interest," he added.

"We are urging the fans to show up and support the team for the last three home games to help the cash-flow of the business and also demonstrate to potential investors the level of the fanbase."

By placing their parent company into administration, however, Saints appear to have at least avoided a 10-point deduction from the Football League.

The League will discuss the matter at a scheduled meeting on Tuesday, but as things stand they cannot apply the standard sanction because the club itself is not in administration.

"We are in dialogue with the Football League and we don't think the club should be affected," said Fry.

"We don't think the rules apply to this but we will find out in due course."

Saints are currently three points adrift of safety and face Charlton, the only team below them in the table, in a vital match at St Mary's on Saturday.

The fact they may not be docked points is unlikely to sit well with the other teams in the relegation scrap, while the League's bottom club Luton - themselves deducted 20 points relating to their own fall into administration - have been quick to voice their disapproval.

"This makes a mockery of the Football League's attempt to uphold the integrity of the competition," said their managing director Gary Sweet.

"If this sails through I see no reason why any football club should not set up a holding company that carries the entire debt of the club which is periodically put into administration in order to cleanse debt while attracting no sanctions."

Barnsley, only four points above Saints and one above the drop zone, were also predictably unimpressed.

Director Don Rowing said: "When clubs in any division start a season, they hope to retain their status by their performance on the field.

"However, there are regulations that we all have to adhere to and Southampton were aware, as all other clubs are, that should they go into administration, they would face a points deduction.

"The fact that they have not done is because they have found a loophole which gives them an advantage over their competitors in the Championship and goes against the spirit of the competition."

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:53 am 
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A real sad story as Southampton is a great club I guess they just made mistakes at the wrong time the move to St Mary's along with relegation hit the club hard and they've just never recovered from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:58 am 
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JSP wrote:
A real sad story as Southampton is a great club I guess they just made mistakes at the wrong time the move to St Mary's along with relegation hit the club hard and they've just never recovered from it.



A real shame for them. And just made mistakes, or the TV cash made nearly every club uncompetitive so this was all inevitable?

Until the TV deal is killed, I have a feeling this clubs going bust thing will just snowball. It probably happened because they were trying to compete with the clubs with the parachute payment money.

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:06 pm 
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conscience wrote:
A real shame for them. And just made mistakes, or the TV cash made nearly every club uncompetitive so this was all inevitable?

Until the TV deal is killed, I have a feeling this clubs going bust thing will just snowball. It probably happened because they were trying to compete with the clubs with the parachute payment money.


Southampton had a unique problem at the start of the season where they loaned out there top players as they couldn't afford to pay them. They then basically tried to play a youth team in the championship and despite playing some nice football the bit of aggression and power you need in that league meant they lost a lot of games.

I agree with the TV deal the gap in revenue between premiership and championship is so vast that any club that gambles and fails could go out of business unless they've got a backer with a bottomless pit of cash. Charlton are in a similar position bottom of the championship in a lot of debt and are currently trying to sell the training ground to avoid administration.

This summer could see a lot of clubs go into administration as the lower league clubs just aren't sustainable anymore as people don't want to pay £20 a week to go an watch league 1/2 football. A season ticket at Northampton costs £100 more than one for Fulham which is ridiculous when you think about it.

I'm not sure how much longer we're going to see 92 professional league teams in England there's a real possibility that teams in league 2 will have to go part time just to survive.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Southampton's chances of survival in the Championship may have already been taken out of their hands by the time they kick off against Watford on Tuesday night.

The Football League will discuss on Tuesday whether to dock the Saints 10 points - virtually condemning them to the drop to League One - after their parent company, Southampton Leisure Holdings, entered administration last week.

Saints, who are currently three points from safety with six games remaining, feel they should avoid the penalty because the club itself is not in administration.

Despite their perilous position, joint-administrator Mark Fry claims there has been plenty of interest in taking over the stricken club.

Fry has warned Southampton are likely go bust before the end of the season if a buyer is not found, but a number of potential investors have come forward.

"We have a substantial number of inquiries which we are following up," Fry told the BBC.

"Clearly there are a number which are not going to be serious, but we are very hopeful there are a number of bids, or interested parties, who are serious about taking over the club.

"I know there are supporters' groups which have shown an interest but they have a long way to go to be able to raise sufficient funds."

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Newcastle boss Alan Shearer and TV pundit Matt Le Tissier are spearheading a last-ditch drive to keep Southampton from going bust.

The former Southampton players will team up with other Saints old boys, among them Mick Channon, Gordon Strachan and Lawrie McMenemy, to pledge their support to the stricken club.

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WILLING TO HELP: Shearer

They must collect £500,000 to survive until the end of the season and will take part in a variety of schemes being masterminded by comedian and supporter Mike Osman.

Southampton's parent company went into administration two weeks ago with debts of £28million and the club could fold unless it is sold by the end of the season.

An insider said: 'Many people are giving us their time to meet supporter groups. Alan Shearer and Gordon Strachan, who can't join us here because of their club commitments, are signing items for auction. It confirms the depth of feeling for one of English football's great little clubs.'

Administrator Mark Fry has revealed that a consortium of local supporters insist they can find £15m to turn Southampton into a fan-run club.

'We already have pledges for more than £750,000 from 430 people,' said group spokesman Mark Heathorn. 'We need 30,000 fans contributing an average of £500 each. This is realistic.'

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:33 pm 
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conscience wrote:
JSP wrote:
A real sad story as Southampton is a great club I guess they just made mistakes at the wrong time the move to St Mary's along with relegation hit the club hard and they've just never recovered from it.



A real shame for them. And just made mistakes, or the TV cash made nearly every club uncompetitive so this was all inevitable?

Until the TV deal is killed, I have a feeling this clubs going bust thing will just snowball. It probably happened because they were trying to compete with the clubs with the parachute payment money.


If the TV deal is killed then I can think of a few clubs who will go bust. Namely Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal.

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Kie99 wrote:
If the TV deal is killed then I can think of a few clubs who will go bust. Namely Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal.


Agreed (kinda).
Sorry Con I just don't agree on this one. Taking the money away from the clubs would be like taking heroin away from a smack addict; they couldn't cope without it and do anything to find an alternative.
Whether you like it or not, football clubs need TV money.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:50 am 
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This is quite sad news, no matter how much i like to say i 'hate' saints, i still want it around because it provides me a bit of banter with my friends (most are saints fans). my first game was saints vs reading at st marys too, like it was said before, they play a very young team with great football to watch, but in this league it counts for nothing as they just get pushed over by bigger guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:33 pm 
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TNB wrote:
Kie99 wrote:
If the TV deal is killed then I can think of a few clubs who will go bust. Namely Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal.


Agreed (kinda).
Sorry Con I just don't agree on this one. Taking the money away from the clubs would be like taking heroin away from a smack addict; they couldn't cope without it and do anything to find an alternative.
Whether you like it or not, football clubs need TV money.



Not every TV deal, just this massively unfair and anti-competitive one we currently have. Too much goes to too few/wrong places etc. This big name bias has meant the creation of three groups in football - the top 4 elite clubs, the rest of the Prem, and the yoyo clubs. Nobody can realistically compete with the top 4 'cause they earn so much cash, the rest of the prem are fairly safe unless they have a bad season or something, and the yoyo clubs have so much more cash than the rest of the Championship that invariably they're the ones who are most likely to win it and return to the top division if relegated.

Everyone else is financially screwed as it stands, so as a lower club chairman you'd be thinking well, do we drop out of the league cause we have the worst team or do we borrow and spend silly money trying to get on the Premiership gravy train, 'cause every year whoever comes down from the Prem at the end of the season will have 10 or 20 times more money than you will.

We'll keep losing clubs until we spread it about a bit better imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:41 pm 
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conscience wrote:
Not every TV deal, just this massively unfair and anti-competitive one we currently have. Too much goes to too few/wrong places etc. This big name bias has meant the creation of three groups in football - the top 4 elite clubs, the rest of the Prem, and the yoyo clubs. Nobody can realistically compete with the top 4 'cause they earn so much cash, the rest of the prem are fairly safe unless they have a bad season or something, and the yoyo clubs have so much more cash than the rest of the Championship that invariably they're the ones who are most likely to win it and return to the top division if relegated.

Everyone else is financially screwed as it stands, so as a lower club chairman you'd be thinking well, do we drop out of the league cause we have the worst team or do we borrow and spend silly money trying to get on the Premiership gravy train, 'cause every year whoever comes down from the Prem at the end of the season will have 10 or 20 times more money than you will.

We'll keep losing clubs until we spread it about a bit better imo.


The 'big name bias' that you say has created the elite Top 4 is down mainly to the Champions League, and not Sky's Premier League TV deal. It's only fair that the top clubs get more money, its a reward for doing well, and the bigger clubs have more fans, and as a result there's more interest in their games, which is good for the TV company.
The Premier League was established with this in mind, the top clubs had more fans, more interest, so they wanted more money.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:14 pm 
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TNB wrote:
The 'big name bias' that you say has created the elite Top 4 is down mainly to the Champions League, and not Sky's Premier League TV deal. It's only fair that the top clubs get more money, its a reward for doing well, and the bigger clubs have more fans, and as a result there's more interest in their games, which is good for the TV company.
The Premier League was established with this in mind, the top clubs had more fans, more interest, so they wanted more money.



I agree the top sides should get a bit more, but not so much more competition is destroyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:14 pm 
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In principle the original deal made sense split the money evenly but the problem is the additional revenue the top clubs get through commercial sales (through the larger fan bases) means they get the advantage add to that the regular qualification to the ECL means they have even more money. The only way you could change this is through some sort of profit sharing set up but considering our league system works on qualification/relegation that system just wouldn't work.

the current set up could be a lot more unreasonable imagine if Liverpool and Utd could negotiate there own deals like Real and Barca do? They'd be laughing all the way to the bank making the league even more uncompetitive.

The problem the small clubs now have is that now the players have all the power they can't hold on to the good players long enough to make a successful team imo. If the clubs could build sides around a top players like they used to then maybe they could break the ECL monopoly that the big 4 have.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:32 pm 
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JSP wrote:
the current set up could be a lot more unreasonable imagine if Liverpool and Utd could negotiate there own deals like Real and Barca do? They'd be laughing all the way to the bank making the league even more uncompetitive.


Another spot on post from JSP, that scenario would narrow it down to a Top 2, then the EPL would be like the SPL, might as well just not bother with the league and flip a coin in May to decide who wins.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Some of us older ones remember it, but just wondering how many of the younger people know that once upon a time all the big clubs gave away a % of their gate receipts to be shared amongst the lower clubs


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:45 pm 
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I wasn't actually aware of that but I think some of the money from the Premiership does trickle down through the TV deal. I'm not 100% sure on this but i'd say it's a a very marginal sum.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:51 pm 
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JSP wrote:
I wasn't actually aware of that but I think some of the money from the Premiership does trickle down through the TV deal. I'm not 100% sure on this but i'd say it's a a very marginal sum.



Well judging by how many clubs have gone bankrupt or are close to it, I'd say that there wasn't enough trickling down at the moment. They got billions, and clubs are going under for the sake of a few million.

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Penalised Saints face relegation


Southampton will be relegated from the Championship after being docked 10 points by the Football League.

The penalty comes after the club's parent company went into administration at the start of April.

Southampton are currently four points off safety with two games to go and, even if they beat the drop, they will be deducted 10 points.

If they do not avoid finishing in the bottom three then the points penalty will take effect next season.

More to follow.

Click The Link...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8014811.stm

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But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Southampton are set to launch an appeal against the 10-point penalty which has condemned them to relegation from the Coca-Cola Championship.

The Football League imposed the penalty having investigated Saints' finances since their holding company, Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, went into administration.

Southampton argued that because the club itself is not in administration they should avoid the mandatory points penalty, but the League have decided the 10-point deduction stands.

If the south-coast club finish outside the bottom three they will still be relegated as the points will be taken from this season's total, while if they finish in the drop zone they will start next season in League One on minus-10 points

Saints, currently second from bottom and four points from safety, therefore face the bizarre prospect of playing their final two games for the right to start the League One season on zero points rather than to avoid the drop.

But the saga is set to drag on after administrators issued an angry response to the League's decision.

Their statement read: "The administrators and the club were informed of the League's intention to issue a release on the findings of the independent forensic report five minutes before its publication, leaving no time for consultation and to inform fans, players and staff.

"We are of the opinion that an incorrect conclusion has been reached. The football regulations do not apply to the circumstances surrounding Southampton Football Club."

Saints also refuted the Football League's claim they withdrew their co-operation towards the investigation.

The statement concluded: "Both the club and the administrators are now considering their positions and expect to launch an appeal."

Football League chairman Lord Mawhinney acknowledged the club do have the right to appeal.

Speaking on Sky Sports News, he said: "There is an appeal mechanism and it's up to Southampton to decide whether they want to appeal and on what basis."

He added: "(The decision) wasn't inevitable, we commissioned forensic accountants to look at the situation. They gave us their report, they drew our attention to the holding company's annual report and we got external legal advice.

"The weight of all three of those made it clear that the club's affairs were inextricably linked to the holding company and, as a consequence, we took the view that an administrator had been appointed relating to the club and therefore we had no choice under our regulations but to apply the sporting sanctions.

"I have sympathy for the fans but the fans know as well as the rest of us that this has not been a shining example of football management. We have had changes and tension at board level and so the fans have had a difficult time.

"I can't imagine there is a Southampton fan in the world who welcomes this decision but the job of the Football League Board is to protect the integrity of the competition and that is what we have done."

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 Post subject: Re: Saints Not Marching On Much Longer
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:13 pm 
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JSP wrote:
A real sad story as Southampton is a great club I guess they just made mistakes at the wrong time the move to St Mary's along with relegation hit the club hard and they've just never recovered from it.


A damned shame. Such a family club, too. So much in-fighting and last season they were kept up by Nigel Pearson. So, they did what any normal club would do - they sacked him, thanked him and sent him on his way.

He's just taken Leicester back to the Championship in his first season - ironic or what? :shrug:

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