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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:51 pm 
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Well, that didn’t go very well did it? All things considered it has been a pretty devastating few days for the top end of Premier League, which will resume looking, beneath the powder and paint, a little bruised and bleary, wounds bound up with vinegar and brown paper. On the plus side the world’s richest league finally found a team it could beat on Thursday (in your face, Young Boys of Berne). But beyond this four lost matches out of five with an aggregate score of 8-3 to Abroad represents a pretty clear sense of collective defeat.

Exposed to tactically refined elite‑level modern football the Premier League’s second- and third-placed teams came stumbling out of the trees like a group of 19th-century goat-herders catching a first glimpse across the plains of the steam-driven iron horse. Defeats for Liverpool and Tottenham simply maintained a pattern of energetic B-listerdom that has left English football providing three Europa League semi-finalists in the past eight years.

So. What’s the plan, then? There have already been plenty of urgent, well-reasoned critiques of the failings of English football. Quite what to do is another matter. It seems there is, even after all these years, no one‑shot practical solution to decades of entertaining, commercially successful insularity.

With this in mind perhaps I could put forward a modest proposal, a first hopeful grappling hook across the divide. Starting this weekend I suggest everybody with any kind of interest – players, pundits, fans, hacks – take a collective vow to stop going on about referees. Yes, that’s right. Look away from the lights. Don’t listen to the (loud, excitable) voices. It’s over now. Banned. Verboten. No more referees. Let’s see where it leads us.

Not just because ranting on about referees is tedious and inane (although it is tedious and inane). And not just because surely nobody wants another weekend like the last, which felt like something close to Peak Referee, a collective nausea of fruitless outrage. But mainly because in a great footballing nation that has always struggled, through the bars, to produce anything other than revenue, it is time to start having a more grown-up conversation about all this.

Small steps then. Although having said that if we were to stop, to make it a faux pas to mention referees, an embarrassing public gaffe, then I have a strong suspicion every single component part of English football would immediately start to get better.

For a start refereeing would improve. Who out there could do any kind of job properly knowing every split‑second response will be scrutinised with relentless hostility, that your competence will be questioned, body mass ridiculed, integrity impugned? We seem to have forgotten that muddle and confusion, a lack of any deeper platonic truth in any of this, are why referees exist in the first place, that they are a grudging necessity, like corner flags or crossbars, there simply to keep the spectacle chugging along.

Stop going on about referees and punditry of all shades would also improve. Let’s face it, pointing out minor split-second points of detail via a super slow-mo TV replay is not analysis. It carries no joy or insight, just as the only positive suggestion anyone makes, announcing repeatedly that we need “to bring in technology”, also leads nowhere. Take a look at rugby league, a highly skilled sport that must now devote long, dead stretches of matches to discussions about “downward pressure” (“Is there downward pressure? … I don’t think we can say there’s downward pressure”) to the extent that if it was invented now, pitched via various agencies, and launched from scratch as a national sport it would probably end up being called Downward Pressure.

As for cricket, well, let’s not even get started. TV referrals may have helped clarify some grey areas. But the umpires? Shadows in long coats. Here is one of the historic pegs of the sport – ball, bat, stumps, umpire – reduced to the status of gooseberry, a branded hanger-on, a mobile hatstand.

So let’s stop going on about referees! It’s getting better already! Certainly junior and part-time football might become a happier, safer, more orderly experience. And this is important, because English football has gone a little sour somehow, at least among the new digital consumers, the disembodied angry heads perceiving the sport from afar as a series of moving shapes on a screen, diffuse, disconnected people who are in the words of Jerry Seinfeld, basically cheering on laundry, but who remain still capable of feeling an apparently genuine sense of personal grievance, tribal wrongs, ancestral feuds.

The refereeing obsession fits this perfectly . When you’re watching in the flesh a contentious refereeing decision just merges naturally into the chain of events. The narrative moves on in real time, without the magnifying effects of endless replays and aggravating commentary, like having an angry little footballing superego inside your head bleating constantly about imagined slights, cartoon conspiracies.

Let’s stop going on about referees. And maybe we can start on English football itself, with its wasted riches, its trivia obsession, its proud and diligent philistinism. It is an old story, just as the national team almost staged a walk‑out the first time Walter Winterbottom showed up with a chalkboard, just as English managers still routinely dismiss discussion of tactics and methods by those from outside the sport’s own sweaty front parlour, and just as we still love to laugh at Louis van Gaal and his “philosophy”.

All of which might make sense if the English were any good at this game, or had been since the best of the rest cottoned on and began to transform this brilliantly simple sport into a vigorous practical science, rather than just a place of lucrative tribalism and cartoonish operetta. So let’s take a first baby step. Ditch the referee. Cut him loose. We need to not talk about Kevin Friend. At the end of another week of cognitive dissonance for the richest, loudest, most chasteningly brittle league in the world, there must be a few more interesting conversations to be had.


This piece pretty much sums up my opinions on referees they're talked about non stop by managers/players/pundits and blamed for everything yet they have no voice or right to reply as much as the media want to haul them in front of the cameras and almost have them on trial that would be a huge mistake and the case for video replay just doesn't wash with me.

Yes there are millions of £'s at stake on some decisions but that isn't what the sport is about it's not why we all fell in love with the game I think it's time for the FA to clamp down on this and ban anyone from talking about refs before or after games and they should encourage pundits to give proper analysis on MOTD rather than just replay the major referee decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:49 am 
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Football Association chairman Greg Dyke has expressed his concern at the "scary" increase in incidents of players surrounding referees.

The number of confrontations of match officials in the professional game in England has almost trebled since last season, figures show.

The FA wrote to clubs in England's top five divisions in December to remind them of their responsibilities.

"The whole game needs to ensure it is addressing this issue," said Dyke.

Quote:
What constitutes 'surrounding a match official'?
The FA says an offence of this nature has been committed when three or more players of one club approach an official in a confrontational manner.


At this stage last season, the FA had charged six clubs for not controlling their players. This term, the number has risen to 16.

Clubs have been warned following such incidents on 29 occasions, compared to 14 this time last year.

"We have seen a pretty scary increase this season in the number of clubs charged with their players surrounding referees," Dyke said.

"I believe it is particularly important for professional clubs to set an example so that this kind of conduct is not replicated at grassroots and youth level."

The FA's bid to tackle the issue comes after Chelsea's players were criticised for surrounding referee Bjorn Kuipers during their Champions League tie against Paris St-Germain.

Chelsea will not face any action from Uefa as, unlike the FA, the European governing body has no specific rules governing surrounding the referee.

Uefa president Michel Platini is expected to consider introducing similar regulations, however.

The FA introduced a charge of surrounding match officials as part of its Respect campaign.

Now, seven years after the launch of that campaign, designed to improve player and spectator behaviour at the grassroots level of the game, the FA is desperate to clamp down on what it sees as a growing problem.

The issue was raised directly by FA officials with players and club staff at visits in the summer, when it was made clear it would not be tolerated.

That has been reflected by charges being consistently brought against offenders.

Chelsea were fined after being found guilty of surrounding the referee during a recent game with Everton, while Queens Park Rangers were fined for the same offence in November, as were West Ham United in February.

The FA is understood to be open to the possibility of increasing fines for clubs whose players are found guilty of harassing a referee. Referees may also be encouraged to take a tougher line on dissent, and book more players who surround them.

The Professional Footballers' Association could also come under pressure to provide more guidance and better education to its members.


Maybe if you get caught crowding the referee more than once in a game the manager should get a 1 line touch line ban also I think it's time for the media to stop discussing referee mistakes all the time with managers.

Referee's should be off limits when it comes to questioning from the media before and after games the pundits/journalists can have their says but managers/players should stay silent on these issues imo.

I don't think it's any worse now than it has been for the last 10 years clubs have always tried to put pressure on the refs.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:56 pm 
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Former referees’ chief Keith Hackett fears that a number of officials currently taking charge of top games in England are ‘too old’ and ‘not up to the task.’

The Yorkshireman told Sky Sports News HQ that a few of them are ‘struggling physically’ to keep up with play and believes the appointment process needs reviewing.

On Saturday at the Etihad Stadum in Manchester, referee Neil Swarbrick sent off West Brom’s Gareth McAuley for a crime committed by Craig Dawson.

This was the third time in under a year that a Premier League official had shown a red card to the wrong player in what was another case of mistaken identity.

The 70-year-old from Sheffield believes there are a number of reasons why the standard of refereeing in England is not as strong as it should be

And Hackett, who was a FIFA listed referee at the height of his career, before taking on the role as general manager of the PGMOB (Professional Game Match Officials Board), did not mince his words.

He said: “We have an ageing group of referees. Two now should be retired – Chris Foy and Phil Dowd – they’ve had good careers and been excellent referees.

“But you can see them struggling physically with the game. Some of the younger guys, apart from Michael Oliver, have not met the requirements and I think the appointment process is a bit skew.

'Team spirit'

“Martin Atkinson, a good referee (in charge of Liverpool-Manchester United at the weekend), has had 25-26 games this season and you’ve got Mark Clattenburg holding the board (highlighting the number of minutes of injury time) – and he’s arguably our best referee.

“And if he’s our best referee he should be out there every week and I think he’s not been treated that well or used that well.”

And Hackett is convinced the management of the current crop falls significantly short of the standards expected, adding: "These guys need to learn off each other, have a team spirit, which does not appear to be there at the moment.

“You see a guy who has a poor game, then he's given another game when ideally he should be rested and taken to account for that performance.

“I’m not suggesting we have a hanging judge mentality. But for a referee’s own well-being, he needs to get out of the firing line some times and be used more sensibly.

“But if you get the wrong man (send off the wrong person), at the elite level, then frankly that’s not acceptable.

“And for review processes the timelines are too long. You have a game at the weekend and it’s reviewed by Thursday.

"You need it reviewing quickly. They also did away with assessors in the stadium which I think was a mistake.”


I don't want it but the game is to fast to be properly refereed properly unless we get refs who are as fit as the players so 20-40 years old they're never going to be able to keep up.

Technology certainly needs to be explored as 1 route but personally I'm not in favour of it I'd rather they clamp down on the bullsh*t tactics players use to try and cheat the refs and use the techology to punish these people. It might mean 1 or 2 years of chaos with bans but this is something UEFA/FIFA need to clamp down on in all the top leagues but I just don't think the fans want it

The refs in the Premier League are very good they are amongst the best in Europe but the game is impossible to referee unless we help them with techology it doesn't really bother me that they get stuff wrong I think we all just need to be a bit more grown up about it and accept that they aren't going to be right 100% of he time.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:31 pm 
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The body in charge of Premier League refereeing has denied claims made by the former match official Mark Halsey that he was put under pressure to say he had not seen controversial incidents take place in matches.

The 55-year-old, who retired at the end of the 2012-13 season, made the comments on social media, following the Football Association’s decision to hand the Manchester City striker Sergio Agüero a three-match ban for violent conduct following an incident in which the striker appeared to elbow West Ham’s Winston Reid.

Agüero was not reprimanded by the referee, Andre Marriner, during the game, although the striker was charged retrospectively and will now miss the Manchester derby on Saturday. City had appealed against the ban on the grounds that Marriner was close enough to the incident to adjudge whether action against Agüero was warranted at the time.

Only in circumstances where a referee has not seen a bookable offence can retrospective action be taken against a player.

In his post-match report, Marriner said he had not seen the incident, therefore permitting the subsequent video review that brought about Agüero’s three-match ban. Had Marriner seen the incident then such action could not have been taken.

“I have been in that situation when I have seen an incident and been told to say I haven’t seen it,” said Halsey on Twitter, adding: “To be fair to the FA … it comes from within the PGMOL” – a reference to the Professional Game Match Officials Limited.

Gary Neville, the former England and Manchester United defender, was among those immediately alarmed by the comments, responding: “Is that not corrupt?”

Rejecting Halsey’s allegation, the PGMOL said: “Match officials submit their reports, including critical incidents, directly to the FA. Match officials ensure that their reports are a full and accurate description of the incident. There is no pressure from the PGMOL to include or omit anything.”

The PGMOL was formed in 2001 to improve refereeing standards and provides officials for across the Premier League, Football League and FA competitions, receiving funding from all three bodies.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:04 pm 
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The Wirral referee Mike Dean will officiate the Merseyside derby at Goodison Park next Monday – his first assignment involving Everton or Liverpool for more than a decade.

Dean is a member of the Cheshire FA and does not support Everton or Liverpool but was removed from FA Cup final duties in 2006 when the Anfield club played West Ham United. At the time the Football Association said: “The fact he is from the Wirral might lead to comment and debate which could place him under undue additional pressure.” He took charge of the FA Cup final between Portsmouth and Cardiff City two years later.

Dean, 48, has only officiated one Liverpool game in his career – a League Cup tie against Sheffield United in 2003 – and two Everton matches, the last against Wigan Athletic in January 2006.

So far this season the referee has taken charge of 14 matches, issuing 63 yellow cards and three red cards.


It's obvious that he supports one of them why else wouldn't they let him ref either side

Anthony Taylor is from Altrincham which is about 5 minutes from Manchester and he regularly refs the Manchester clubs.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:46 am 
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Does feel like the standards have slipped this season but then again I wonder if that's a result of their being more games on TV where the decisions are more heavily scrutinised by pundits during and after games also BT have Howard Webb chipping in during games giving his opinion on things. It does feel like the TV replay stuff is coming soon and I think the PL will be one of the early adopters on it but it needs to be a quick system and I don't want it to become like Rubgy where they check nearly every try that is scored just to be sure.

Also, because we now have a 6 team race for the top 4 is every decision becoming more and more analysed with 24 hours news and social media a bad decision can linger for days.

On Mike Dean he's always been a ref who will make big calls if he thinks he's seen something he will give a red card or a penalty he obviously made a mistake yesterday it looked worse from his angle than it did from other angles it was a foul and a yellow.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Mike Dean will referee Sunday's televised FA Cup third-round tie between Tottenham and Aston Villa - despite recent criticism of his performances.

West Ham manager Slaven Bilic questioned Dean's decision to send off Sofiane Feghouli in his side's 2-0 defeat by Manchester United on Monday.

It was the fifth red card Dean has shown in 15 matches this season.

The Hammers are appealing against Feghouli's dismissal.

Dean sent off the French midfielder after just 15 minutes following his collision with Phil Jones, but Bilic felt the United defender had committed the more dangerous tackle.

The dismissal was the 25th by Dean since the start of the 2013-14 season - the highest number by any current Premier League referee in that period.

Writing in The Times, former player Tony Cascarino said Dean "lost all control of the game" while Sky Sports pundit Niall Quinn called Dean "arrogant" and the decision "rank bad refereeing".

But former Manchester United captain Gary Neville later tweeted: "I was critical of Mike Dean's performance in the game. He was poor. But I think the reaction since towards him is disgraceful.

"Yes, he should be criticised but to suggest he wanted to be centre of attention and he should be sacked or not referee again is wrong!"


I actually think he's a good ref I can't speak of his other red card and pens I know he gives a lot but he got one wrong vs West Ham but that's come just after the FA apparently sent out a reminder to the refs about these tackles following the high profile ones Rojo got away with since then there's been an obvious clamp down Vardy, Fernandinho, Francis & Fegoulhi has all got straight reds for these type of lunging tackles. I know a lot of the time when I watch him ref I think he's got that right when he gives these big decisions.

Dean is notorious for taking these directives to the letter of the law he gave a few penalties early in the season when they had a clamp down on the holding at corners I think there were 2 in a game involving Stoke and maybe Man City and he's not a bottler if he sees something he'll give it he's not afraid of being wrong.

The only thing I don't particularly like about him is he's very dismissive of players but anyone who's played at any level knows you have some refs that let you get away with a bit and others who get the cards out at the first sign of any swearing/trouble. Dean doesn't take any sh*t and the players need to recognise that, you can bet before the game the manager reminds them of what they can and can't do with this ref I know Fergie used to be big on it as he had expeirence of all the refs built up over years he knew which ones his teams could bully and which ones are better left alone.

As for Dean losing control of the game that's nonsense after the red card he let a lot of tackles go for both sides and he reffed it fairly he didn't try to level it up because as far as he was concerned he hadn't made a mistake he doesn't see replays until after the game so he has to assume that he's right until then.

One of the problems is we have so many pundits who don't know the rules and more importantly don't understand that the rules have changed from when they retired and they comment on these tackles on the basis of what they think the rules are/should be not what FIFA actually says they are. There are only 1 set of rules and to be fair in recent years they've got better at showing us the fans watching on TV what view the ref had as we have multiple cameras all around the ground at every game but what they still don't do is give us a real time replay first. They should show everything full speed first so we can get a good idea of what the ref saw and then slow it down to see if he got it right.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:17 am 
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I think the FA probably got it about right on the Wenger ban 4 game touchline ban it wasn't overly aggressive what he did but I would've preferred a 2 game stadium ban just to set a precedent that they're getting tough on this stuff.

Last night though we saw the double standards of this Conte at one point booted the ball and got a talking to off the ref, Klopp screamed in the 4th officials face after the penalty was saved and didn't even get a warning.

Now neither man was directing anger at the officials in the way a certain Portuguese manager does but I you can bet he'll be bringing this up again as will Wenger.

I think the issue here is basically you can say what you want as long as you don't question the refs integrity ie call him a cheat or suggest he's being biased


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:06 pm 
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It is hardly on a par with the former England manager Don Revie’s defection to the United Arab Emirates in 1977 but Mark Clattenburg’s move to the Middle East has most definitely raised eyebrows.

England’s leading referee is swapping the Premier League for Saudi Arabia where he will replace Howard Webb as the head of refereeing. Unlike Webb, though, Clattenburg, who refereed the Euro 2016 final, is also expected to officiate at matches throughout the kingdom.

The 41-year-old was announced at a slightly stilted press conference in Jeddah on Thursday when the County Durham-born Clattenburg reaffirmed his love for Newcastle United before pronouncing himself on an “educational” mission to improve and “professionalise” refereeing standards throughout Saudi Arabia.

Premier League sources acknowledged he may have taken charge of his final game in England but refused to entirely rule out the possibility of his officiating in this country again – possibly even this season.

Identified as a high flyer right from his early days as an 18-year-old assistant referee in the Northern League, Clattenburg reportedly grew disillusioned by the level of public support officials are offered by Professional Game match officials Ltd.

With Clattenburg’s relationship with Mike Riley, the referee’s overlord, apparently tense, he began listening to offers from the Middle East, China and the United States.

It now seems Arsenal’s 2-0 win over Hull last Saturday may have been the final domestic act of a Newcastle-based Fifa official whose talent has enabled him to surmount setbacks that might have floored some peers.

In 2008-2009 Clattenburg served an eight-month suspension while PGMOL investigated his business dealings. He was swiftly and emphatically cleared of any wrongdoing. In 2012 Chelsea complained he had used inappropriate language towards Mikel Jon Obi. His career trajectory seemed serenely in the ascendant until a reprimand from Riley in 2014. This involved breaches of protocol when he drove to Tyneside to see an Ed Sheeran concert after refereeing a Crystal Palace v West Bromwich game and speaking to the then Palace manager Neil Warnock on the phone after the game.

Very much a man of his time, Clattenburg resisted the convention that referees should be models of discretion and happily displayed the tattoos of the European Cup and European Championship trophies he acquired after taking charge of both finals last summer.

PGMOL was unstinting in its praise for Clattenburg during an amicable parting of the ways, with no bridges apparently burned. “Mark set standards for others to follow,” it said in a statement. “Mark has been a great asset to the English game and hopefully an inspiration to those who want to get into refereeing at the grassroots of the game. We understand this is an exciting opportunity for Mark.”

Clattenburg, meanwhile, was introducing himself to a new public. “My name is Mark Clattenburg,” he told Saudi journalists, before outlining plans. “I’m from a city called Newcastle. Anybody who knows England well, knows we have the best team in the country. I was recently voted the best referee in the world [at Dubai’s Globe Soccer Awards in December], therefore I bring a wealth of knowledge and a passion for improving refereeing and education here in Saudi Arabia.

“I’m very humbled by this exciting opportunity to support and educate referees, to use my expertise in refereeing some matches and bring referees from other countries around the world to improve the standard here.”


Not good for English football when our top ref is quitting the game guessing he's been offered a lot of money to give up his career to take this role.


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 Post subject: Re: You're not fit to referee??
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:22 pm 
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Mark Clattenburg is to remain a Premier League referee for the rest of the season, and will be in charge for West Bromwich Albion’s game against Bournemouth this weekend, before taking up his new position as head of referees in Saudi Arabia.

England’s leading match official announced last week that he was to leave his position on the panel of elite referees to succeed Howard Webb in the role in the Middle East but will serve out his notice period. The 41-year-old, who was recently voted the best referee in the world at Dubai’s Globe Soccer Awards, had announced his intention to help “improve refereeing and the education of officials” with the Saudi Arabian Football Federation.

However, he remains under contract with Professional Game Match Officials Ltd (PGMOL) until the end of the current campaign and, having spoken with the referees’ manager, Mike Riley, over recent days, will be available until the summer. Depending on commitments relating to his new role, he is likely to oversee at least four matches between now and the end of the campaign, when he will formally take up his £500,000-a-year tax free role in Riyadh. He is understood to have turned down an even more lucrative offer to work in China.

Clattenburg’s career, while controversial at times, has seen him take charge of such showpiece events as the Champions League final, FA Cup final and the final of Euro 2016 in Paris last summer. Despite appearing at a press conference in Saudi Arabia last week to explain his new role – he is succeeding Webb, who resigned from his position earlier this month to take up a similar job with Major League Soccer – it had never been formally confirmed that the County Durham official would cease to be available for Premier League fixtures.

His discussions with Riley, with whom he has endured a fractious relationship at times given his reservations over the internal politics at PGMOL, are understood to have been amicable and, with 13 rounds of games still to be played in the Premier League this term, Clattenburg will feature again over his three-month notice period. Officials are selected on a match-by-match basis, with his availability to be determined in a similar way.

“Mark set standards for others to follow,” said a PGMOL statement last week once news of the move to Saudi had been confirmed. “He has been a great asset to the English game and hopefully an inspiration to those who want to get into refereeing at the grassroots of the game. We understand this is an exciting opportunity for Mark.”


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