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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Nothing just think he sums up our nations obsession with passion being the most important thing in a player when ability is so much more important.

Scott Parker is reasonably good at getting the ball back but he's well below average at keeping it but because he gets it back fans love him.

He is the text book definition of a "try hard" he gets picked because he runs around a lot which covers up his lack of ability


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:57 am 
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I have never heard anyone say Scott Parker is full of skill. But he is very good at his job, winning the ball and giving it to someone who can do something.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:50 am 
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I think Parker is a decent player, he's not a player you'd want in the final third as his final ball / shot is generally poor, but he's good at breaking up play and pressuring the opposition.

You need workmen in the side as well as the flair players, and he fills that role quite capably. Had he not chosen to go from Charlton to Chelsea all those years ago he'd probably have been a far better player than he is now though.

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idontfeardeath wrote:
Spawny wrote:
But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:25 am 
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Mr Carrot wrote:
I have never heard anyone say Scott Parker is full of skill. But he is very good at his job, winning the ball and giving it to someone who can do something.


Exactly, he's a good team player which allows the more creative/ skilled types to play once he's got the ball back for his team. And I always quite liked Parker, for what he is - a workmanlike ball winner.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:27 am 
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I'm with JSP - Parker is massively overrated.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:34 am 
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Serbinator wrote:
I'm with JSP - Parker is massively overrated.


Oh don't get me wrong, the press go a bit OTT about him and do massively hype him up beyond what he's actually capable of, but he's a solid player.

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idontfeardeath wrote:
Spawny wrote:
But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:39 am 
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Why do you need a workman in the side?

Who is the workman in the Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Spain or Germany sides?

All players should work hard regardless of how good they are people used to give Ronaldo flack because they said he didn't defend well that's because he worked incredibly hard in attack to try and score goals football doesn't have passengers anymore. You look at those lads at Barca they run harder than any other team the intensity of their pressing is unreal it's the same at Madrid it's the modern way the game is played by top sides. For me in the modern game you can't just fall into a workman or a flair player you have to be both being athletic isn't enough anymore because the best players in the world aren't just good on the ball now they're as quick & strong as the rest.

Very few top sides play a DM who's job is just to be a ball winner now it's more important to be able to keep the ball.

For me the CM who runs around a lot flying into tackles is going to become a thing of the past. The best player in the world at doing that is Javier Mascherano and he's good on the ball but not great so Barca converted him to a CB. The new style DM's like Carrick, Alonso, Martinez & Busquets even Arteta at Arsenal are footballers first ball winners second.

When he was younger Parker I think actually had a lot of ability and he could have been a really good player but the move to Chelsea just stalled him as he effectively stopped playing football for 2 seasons.

Anyway back to Cleverley he's coming along nicely and the most important thing for him this season is he can stay fit and get 30-40 games under his belt then we can judge him properly. He also needs to be given the chance to prove himself in the big games and learn from his mistakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Scott Parker at Charlton was a good player on the ball. I think he's over rated as well but I think he went backwards. As a youngster he looked more like an attacking midfielder than a ball winner.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Whats the point in comparing everyone to Madrid and Barca.

Scott Parker could easily get into uniteds midfield, he's equally as good as Fletcher.

Like I said, no one is saying Parker is a world beater, but he's good at what he does.

Cleverley is just ok for me a the moment. I fear he's one of those players who thinks he's better than he is and will stagnate.

I am again hoping the De Rossi leaving is true, especially if City are in for Busquets, we MIGHT have a chance although PSG money will win the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:45 pm 
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For an elite team like ourselves, I guess the point in comparing to those midfields is to give THAT as the standard we need to strive for, rather than accepting it as unattainable, and settling for being the next best thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Busquets though. I'd never strive for that. Over to the cu*t thread I go.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Oh, I agree. Rather than holding him up as something to emulate, I would hold him up as part of whats wrong with footballers today! What a c*nt!

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Because Barca/Madrid is the benchmark a club of our size should be aiming to be on par with Utd aim for different standards these days it might sound like arrogance but Utd should be targeting European Cup 1/4 minimum every season.

Scott Parker is nowhere near the player Darren Fletcher is in terms of quality with the ball he is much more of a box to box player than Scott Parker. Parkers job last season was win the ball and give it to Modric to do the rest he never wanted it back off Modric you can have that sort of player in a team looking for 4th but in a team aiming for titles your midfielders all need to be able to get involved in the attacking play.

De Rossi isn't leaving Roma the manager will get sacked before DDR is allowed to leave he is that big an influence in that club. The Busquets to City rumour is just an agent trying to sort out his client and being a bit mischievous why would Busquets want to leave Barca? Chances are he just wants bumped up the pay scale a bit to reflect his growing stature within the team.

I agree regarding Cleverley his absence has probably inflated his reputation a little in terms of what he currently is so far it's hard not to be impressed. Still plenty of work to do but he's improving constantly and the biggest thing for him is staying fit


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:55 pm 
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I agree we should be competing with Madrid and Barca, but that doesn't mean copying their style.

Fletcher is the same as Parker for me, okay players, do a job, but don't get excited when you see them on the team sheet.

This time I can see Roma dumping De Rossi, but I don't think we'd pay what they want.

It's a shame we haven't got a Keane type player at the club to rein in the youngsters. They do seem a bit big I am.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Where do you get this impression TClev thinks he's better than he is? I've never seen him give an interview claiming to be the dogs b*llocks, heard reports of him being an arrogant tw*t or anything like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Just my opinion, body language etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Mr Carrot wrote:
I agree we should be competing with Madrid and Barca, but that doesn't mean copying their style.

Fletcher is the same as Parker for me, okay players, do a job, but don't get excited when you see them on the team sheet.

This time I can see Roma dumping De Rossi, but I don't think we'd pay what they want.

It's a shame we haven't got a Keane type player at the club to rein in the youngsters. They do seem a bit big I am.


No but Fergie is one of footballers great evolvers he's moved with the times to keep Utd ahead of the game but I feel we've fallen behind a bit with the modern game.

I dunno if they sold De Rossi the fans would go balistic and Roma fans are hardcore it would be like Rodgers being picked over Gerrard at Liverpool the fans are just never going to go for that. If Zeman doesn't start picking De Rossi soon he'll be sacked.

I think it's hard with youngsters now you've got people in there early 20's who aren't first team regulars on £20k a week then you have people like Cleverley, Jones & Smalling all reported to be on £40-50k a week. If it's only money that motivates you then you wont be at Utd for long unless your Ronaldo standard Utd don't play that game and to be honest it's up to players like Rio, Evra, Carrick & Rooney to be the influence on these players. I imagine someone like Rio Ferdinand is priceless in a dressing room he nearly blew it with his Peckham Prince reputation but when he moved to Leeds then Utd he became a man.

I often wonder is the conditions Utd have created in the academy are a bit to nice for these kids there's a lot to be said for the old style apprentice schemes cleaning boots, changing rooms etc these days they have everything taken care of for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Rio and Rooney? Two players who held the club to ransom over money?

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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:31 pm 
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idontfeardeath wrote:
Rio and Rooney? Two players who held the club to ransom over money?


Roy Keane did it as well he let his contract run down to 6 months and eventually the club caved in and made him the first £50k a week footballer in England.

It's the modern game very few footballers don't put a gun to there clubs head when it comes negotiating a new contract.

If they want someone to properly look up to it's Evra he didn't come through top academies he had to fight his way to the top and despite a drop in form on the pitch his attitude off it is top class.

Cleverley has tradmarked TC23 he might not have done it himself more than likely it's his agent doing it but it does make him sound a bit big time. Add that to the fact he's got himself a famour girlfriend you can see why people think he might be a bit big time. In interviews it's hard to tell players are so well media trained these days that they know exactly what to say when the cameras are on them and since very few of us get a chance to meet them off the pitch it's hard to say what he's really like.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleverley Does It
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Trademarking something doesn't make you big time in my eyes. Like you say you can guarantee it's his agents/management that did that and given his career could be over tomorrow, I don't begrudge players making money off the pitch at all, it's sensible.

Nothing from him has ever suggested to me he thinks he's big time.

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