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 Post subject: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:04 pm 
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So we approach that time of year again as the window almost closes and wonder does the window work?

I think it does but it should close at the end of July before leagues start this would put an end to panic buying. However, for those clubs in ECL qualification stages many would risk making group stages which could see them go way over budget.

So why not keep the window open until the end of January? This would reduce the panic period to just one period a season.

One thing is for sure the football league should scrap it all together and go back to the old system close the window in March. Clubs at this level operate on tight budgets and there only asset are the players. This means that clubs who need to raise cash quickly to avoid administration can sell players quickly and raise cash rather than have to wait until the window opens at which point the players are sold at a fraction of true value.

Should the January window be scrapped altogether? Squads can be decimated by injury but this is what reserve teams are for it would give young players more chance of getting a game. Also, you could allow loans to be done between teams in January for the second half of a season.

Just a few ideas thoughts of mine what are your views on the transfer window?


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:14 pm 
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I think that the idea that clubs could activate transfers when in undeniable financial difficulty like impending liquidation or such is a great idea.. I'd think it could be an addendum to the current workings i.e. only allowed if club is in bankruptcy/liquidation proceedings.

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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:18 pm 
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I think clubs need to be able to act before this happens.

Administration needs to be avoided as its small businesses that get screwed by being forced to take CVA's to recover a small share of the monies owed.

If the bank or tax man is at the door over an unpaid bill or you can't pay next months wages being able to sell a player and avoid 10 point deductions is surely a positive step forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Is it the fault of the transfer window that teams wait until the death to do their business??

It happens in all American sports to the day of the trade deadline, and most of those "windows" are open from anywhere from a week to a month after the championship game until about 1/2 or 3/4 of the way through the following season.

I think it's kinda the nature of the beast, everyone thinks their team is good enough until they realize they aren't and make some moves. Shortening it, moving it around, I think you'd still have the majority of the action happen in the last 24-72 hours


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Deals being done late is only because teams hope clubs will panic buy at the end of the window after a bad start to the season.

If the window shut before seasons started clubs wouldn't have a chance to panic.

It would also protect integrity of the league take Spurs for example they will be a better team on Sept 1st than they were for there opening 2-3 games after deals get done.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:03 pm 
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And teams that United play for the next month will have the advantage of not having to play against Rooney


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:11 pm 
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True but injuries/suspensions are a random variable that happen through a season.

It wasn't a dig at Spurs they're just a good example as they have a track record of leaving business until late in August not always to there advantage on the pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:16 pm 
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If competitive balance is what you're worried about protecting I would say the EPL has bigger problems than the transfer window staying open 3 weeks into the season

I know you weren't taking a shot a spurs, and I wasn't taking a shot at United with my Rooney example


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:47 am 
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JSP wrote:
I think clubs need to be able to act before this happens.

Administration needs to be avoided as its small businesses that get screwed by being forced to take CVA's to recover a small share of the monies owed.

If the bank or tax man is at the door over an unpaid bill or you can't pay next months wages being able to sell a player and avoid 10 point deductions is surely a positive step forward.


Spot on. :thumbup: Administration is far, far too late to be invoking a new rule to allow the sale of players, 'cause by then the ten point deduction is already yours and a few million in transfer fees won't help half as much by then. The only option for the financially strapped club would be a fire sale at mere fractions of the players true value so it'd harm more than help at that point.

I don't see why we have transfer windows anyway, I suspect it's designed to increase excitement (through panic buying and last minute deals) but it doesn't seem to help the clubs or anybody else. By waiting until the last minute they're risking holding onto an unwanted and/or unhappy player if the deal doesn't go through; or having no time to replace them if need be if it does go through.

If the current system is kept, and I'm no big fan of it so I'm open to suggestions of a replacement system, then there need to be some exceptions and a few tweaks imho. Any rules should benefit the league, players and/or clubs - ideally all three - it shouldn't be for the media's 24-hour headline orgy as the deadline clock ticks loudly down. It's a very cheesy and potentially harmful way to manufacture excitement.

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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:45 am 
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I think the point of the transfer window was to protect smaller clubs from losing their best players. Say, for example, Jordi Gomez were having the season of his life, and around February Wenger liked the look of him... in the old system Arsenal could go in and try to buy him then, potentially unsettling him. If they buy him then the end of Wigan's season is in jeopardy, if they fail to buy him they may unsettle him and the end of Wigan's season is in jeopardy.

That said, it stifles some of the lower league clubs, and adjusting just the transfer window in the lower leagues may not cut it as it's the Prem clubs who have the cash. So if a club in the Championship needs to sell their prize asset to settle the books in November then they need to be able to sell to the Premiership clubs, rather than trying to get top dollar on him from Championship clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:01 pm 
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The footballers perspective

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Why the transfer window is hell for players

The transfer window has become one of the most eagerly-awaited periods of the football season, with fans clamouring to know who their club will sign, where their idols will be going and which superstar names will be snapped up by the staggeringly wealthy men behind City or Real Madrid.

For the players themselves, however, it is a very different experience.

The transfer of Sebastien Bassong from Tottenham to Norwich garnered few headlines this summer, something that is perhaps unsurprising given the details of the deal. It involves a solid-but-not-spectacular player being shipped out to a mid-table club for an unremarkable fee of £3 million.

Yet while the move made few ripples in the game, Bassong and his family have been through a chaotic and traumatic summer. The deal might warrant little more than a footnote on our transfer news pages, but the player himself has effectively been forced to change jobs and move house, all with just a few days' notice.

"It is different from our side," Bassong told The Times.

"The transfer window, for players, is really uncertain. Maybe, if you've had a really good season, it's different. Maybe you know where you will be playing.

"But on the other side, it is really uncertain. The clubs will go to your agent and try to get a feeling whether you are interested in moving. The agent relays it to you, and then maybe there's an official offer, and then there's all the talks.

"It takes a long time. It is really stressful not knowing what will happen."

Bassong was not just grumbling on his own behalf: he also lamented the toll that the move will take on his nearest and dearest.

"It is hard for your family. That is another side you don't see," added the former Newcastle star.

"You need their support. My wife (Marie) and my daughter, Elyha, will have to reorganise their lives.

"It is a difficult world we work in. People think it's an easy life - because we are in the spotlight, because of the money - but money is not happiness.

"I was happy at Spurs, but now I have to restart my life to get that happiness back."

Bassong was at Tottenham for three years after joining for £8m in 2009, but made just 44 appearances in his three seasons at White Hat Lane and was sent on loan to Wolves in the second half of last season.

That loan move meant a third new club in four years for the Cameroon international, and he admitted that settling in with new team-mates is one of the toughest parts of being shunted around from club to club.

"It is awkward, being introduced to a new team. It is kind of intimidating," he said.

"They are new people, and you don't know if they will welcome you. All you can do is be the best you can, being as sociable as possible.

"Every time there is a new signing there is a mixed feeling from one or two players. It might be good for the team, but then they are still an opponent for you to face."

Though his career stalled at Spurs, Bassong hopes that by linking up with Chris Hughton (whom he worked with at Newcastle) he will get back on track.

"Chris could tell I was not comfortable when I met the Norwich team, but he made some jokes and he made it easy. That's what makes him such a good manager," he said. "He helps a lot. We have a good human relationship. I can't compare him to any other manager."

It might be a cliche that footballers cite the desire to play as the reason for their moves to smaller clubs, but Bassong insists that it is true.

"I could not take the risk of another year like the last two, where I did not play. I like to play," he said.

"It is not about money or glory for me. It is just about playing. I tried really hard not to lose confidence when I was not playing, but it is tough.

"You have to keep going because if you do not, when your chance comes, you will not be ready to take it."

And he admitted that if all goes to plan, he still has hopes of moving back to a club with ambitions of making waves in the Champions League rather than one which is simply targeting continued top-flight survival.

"I have a big ego," he admitted. "When I left Spurs, I said to André that in one or two years he would be back to buy me again. 'Is that right, Seb?' he said. I told him yes - if he's still there."


People need to remember this when they're crying about their best player forcing a move out of the club there's others who they'd be more than happy to send on their way for a few quid for the crime of not quite being good enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:06 pm 
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It's a good point, and one that is not often given much consideration. Packing your life up and moving every couple of years is not a fun way to spend your life, and when you've got kids it can be really hard for them to keep changing schools and making new friends all the time.

I hope he does well at Norwich, I think he's a good player, and in that article comes across as a decent bloke.

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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:32 pm 
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The international players' union FIFPro insists their decision to launch a legal challenge against the transfer system is a necessary response to the violation of players' rights across the world.

FIFPro General Secretary Theo Van Seggelen claims the current system, which was agreed in 2001, has proved to be ineffective over the last ten years and has given rise to exorbitant agents' fees, third-party ownership and match-fixing.

Van Seggelen insists the existing system must be overhauled to ensure football can overcome many of the problems that have crept into the game in recent years.

"We said in our statement we are always open for negotiations and we are at a certain moment where it is necessary to put pressure on the governing bodies to solve the problems we have in football," Van Seggelen said. "We think the transfer system is one of the reasons why we have these problems.

"We have concluded in the last 10 years that the new system has not functioned at all. It violates players' rights, it harms football as a sport, it harms the competitive balance, it harms football as a business, it harms the economic balance and it leads to abuse - agents' fees, third-party ownership and match-fixing.

"We would like to change agents' regulations which we are working hard on with all the stakeholders in football. We want to stop third-party ownership of players, which is the case in England and Poland - the only two countries in the world.

"We really want to do something about match-fixing and we also cannot accept any longer that over 20% of the players in the world are not being paid on time and in some cases are not being paid."

Van Seggelen insists players' rights need to be protected and he is convinced football's governing bodies understand that changes are necessary.

He explained: "We have to force the governing bodies to change the system in a way that players' rights are respected. That is what we want and that is what we'll be trying to force."

He added: "It's not about abolishing the transfer system. The consequences of the system are that a lot of money is going out of football - look at the development of third-party ownership of players you see that we cannot any longer accept this.

"This imbalanced situation has to be changed and I am convinced that UEFA, Michel Platini and even FIFA is realising that we have to do something about it.

"It's not that we are desperate but we have lost patience and for that reason we have decided to act like this and challenge the transfer system in a legal way."


I have to say I hope they win and the transfer window system gets changed and they go back to the old method where you could register players up to I think the start of March so you don't just buy in loads of players to help win the league/cup. Obviously keep the cup tied rules in Europe the way they are so you can register new signings for the knock out rounds if they haven't already played in groups etc. I'd maybe say change it so you can do transfers up to the end of January then close it for the second half of the season but clubs who go into administration should be allowed to sell players straight away rather than have to wait for the window to open.

All the transfer window does is create a culture of chaos and panic for a few weeks every year where money gets wasted by desperate owners who are so scared of getting relegated. So much money is wasted in football by clubs panic buying


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:29 pm 
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JSP wrote:
I have to say I hope they win and the transfer window system gets changed and they go back to the old method where you could register players up to I think the start of March so you don't just buy in loads of players to help win the league/cup. Obviously keep the cup tied rules in Europe the way they are so you can register new signings for the knock out rounds if they haven't already played in groups etc. I'd maybe say change it so you can do transfers up to the end of January then close it for the second half of the season but clubs who go into administration should be allowed to sell players straight away rather than have to wait for the window to open.

All the transfer window does is create a culture of chaos and panic for a few weeks every year where money gets wasted by desperate owners who are so scared of getting relegated. So much money is wasted in football by clubs panic buying


I hope they succeed too. :thumbup:


A club going into administration is surely too late to lift any transfer restrictions, and if clubs not at risk of going administration aren't permitted to buy players due to restrictions then who exactly are the financially strapped clubs going to sell to?

Also, if clubs are only allowed to sell at prohibited times EG when they're in severe financial difficulty, then surely that'd just tip off all the other clubs of their money problems and so any incoming bids would be much lower than if other clubs weren't aware the selling club was broke and probably had no choice but to accept any bid no matter how small.

I don't think that smaller clubs necessarily have to lose their best players mid-season otherwise, as they can always refuse any offers. I still think it works best with no transfer windows at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:39 pm 
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I hope they succeed too. :thumbup:

A club going into administration is surely too late to lift any transfer restrictions, and if clubs not at risk of going administration aren't permitted to buy players due to restrictions then who exactly are the financially strapped clubs going to sell to?

Also, if clubs are only allowed to sell at prohibited times EG when they're in severe financial difficulty, then surely that'd just tip off all the other clubs of their money problems and so any incoming bids would be much lower than if other clubs weren't aware the selling club was broke and probably had no choice but to accept any bid no matter how small.

I don't think that smaller clubs necessarily have to lose their best players mid-season otherwise, as they can always refuse any offers. I still think it works best with no transfer windows at all.


The issue is you don't just go into administration because of bad luck you do it because you've gambled on the future of your club by over spending (not always the case but most of the time this is true). So there has to be a punishment for that now if a club goes into administration in September the only real assetts they have are players who's market value is constantly diminishing because there contracts run down so the quicker you can get them off the books the better as not only do you inject capital into the business you also slash costs by reducing the outgoings which might save the club. You might decide to keep the players but if you can get high earners out the door quickly then surely that is a good thing.

Personally I think they should scrap the football creditor rule for player contracts if the clubs going bust football playing staff should face the same realities as the rest of the staff in that they might not get paid.

Do they even need a transfer window in the football league? What does it really achieve just make it an open market like it used to be until March (I think) so teams can buy and sell as they please to keep the cash coming in. If they reach a pinch point in terms of cash flow because gates have fallen so revenues are down they should be able to sell a player if they don't need him or bring someone in if they want to invest.

The idea of the transfer windows is it provides stability and integrity in a leagues but the reality is 2 days a year it creates panic and clubs take huge gambles to either reach the promised land or to try and avoid relegation.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:58 pm 
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In the days of oligarchs with infinite pots of money, it is becoming impossible to assess value in the transfer market. John Nicholson has a headache...

Transfer deadline day has turned into one of each season's most dramatic, if over-hyped, moments of entertainment. The media gets very excited, especially Jim White who goes into a manic mode which could reasonably be said to have evolved to the point of self-parody.

The evening show which he fronts up has been trailed all week. And, let's be honest, it's a lot of fun, not for the transfer news, because that's all mostly been put to bed, but because of how so much is made out of so little for so long.

Television lights outside football grounds draw children to them like zombies to fresh meat, gurning at the camera like a long lost tribe in the Amazon hypnotized by technology. There's usually a worry-eyed reporter who fears the mob will turn on him and kill him if he doesn't deliver big transfer news. Then there are those people of all ages whose existence seems dedicated to wearing sports clothing in sizes either far too small or far too big for them, who seem hugely entertained by chanting names of footballers and jumping up and down. Sometimes it's like looking at animals in a zoo, but it's hard to know if you're on the outside of the cage or locked inside.

Interestingly, the early versions of the trailer for Sky's programme featured Jim White 'taking' a phone call and saying 'Harry - what have you got for me?' But this weekend appeared to have been edited to lose the word Harry. Perhaps it played up to one too many clichés even for this far too self-knowing, shark-jumped event.

It seems hard to remember the time before the whole concept of the transfer window was brought into being but it was only made mandatory by FIFA in 2002 - before that you could just buy and sell anyone at any time. There were pros and cons of this, just as there are of the transfer window, but now it's all poured into two separate time periods it seems much less entertaining overall, but more entertaining on the final run-in. However, perhaps more seriously, it is surely this deadline that has slowly made transfer fees insane.

Indeed, the whole culture of transfers seems to have gone somewhere south of sanity. When Xabi Alonso is transferred to Bayern for £7m less than Ross McCormack's transfer to Fulham you can't help but feel something is out of whack with the world.

It now seems as if each transfer exists in its own bubble and bears no relation to any notion of the wider market or to anything paid for any other player. Prices paid seem to depend on where in the window timeline we are, how much the player is needed by the buying club and how much he is superfluous to the selling club, as well as on the motivation of the player to make the move and also, in large part, on a random number plucked out of thin air by an agent or chairman.

We used to have a notion of how much a player was worth in relation to the overall market. Fees would rise with inflation but the really crazy ones were few and far between. But now, in the era of richer-than-Cresus oligarchs for whom money could literally be confetti, any fee number seems to have become almost worthless. It has no relation to anything we might understand in our lives. It is just a number.

The Angel Di Maria deal will cost Manchester United £130m in total. Is that good value or poor value? Does it even matter anymore if it is or isn't? How will we ever be able to tell? It's impossible to say.

How do clubs come up with a price in the first place? Is £16m for Calum Chambers a lot or not much? Is £35m for Alexis Sanchez a really high fee? Lukas Jutkiewicz cost Burnley £1.5m from Middlesbrough and he looked a good player for them this weekend. Is that a pittance to pay or is it just the right amount? We no longer have any idea.

How can we? It's not even as if every cheap player is rubbish or decrepit and every expensive one brilliant - that is proven season after season. But, even more than that actually, I no longer know what is a high number or a low number when it comes to football transfers. In fact, even the highest of fees such as Gareth Bale's seem small in relation to the sponsorship and TV deal numbers. We might instinctively think the Di Maria fee is sky high but in relation to United's income, it isn't. So is it high or is it not? I wonder if those making the deals have any idea themselves.

The numbers involved are all over the place. I have no idea how a player is even valued any more. Why did David Luiz cost £50m? Based on what? Why was Diego Costa £32m and not £20m or £60m? How did Hull decide to pay, and Norwich decide to accept, £7m for Robert Snodgrass? Snodgrass seems a bog standard player really, so is seven cheap or is it much? How does anyone decide? Could Manchester United have got more than £4.4m from Dinamo Moscow for Alex Buttner or did they get £4m over the odds for a useless piece of meat? In one way £4.4m is a lot of money. Huge. But for United it's chump change. It's hard to know what value to hold over these numbers.

The meaninglessness of transfer fees doesn't actually help most clubs who are under pressure to spend money to improve the squad. It used to be the case that the more you spent, the better it would be. But not any more. You might spend £50m on a defender and still get David Luiz. Manchester United spending over £200m in the last 13 months should, you'd feel, guarantee recovery, but it probably doesn't. They might all be the wrong players. The very high numbers don't mean they'll work.

It seems that the fees paid for players have never bore less relation to what the player can deliver for the side than they do now, which is probably why so many are now officially 'undisclosed'. There's so little confidence in having paid the right amount for a player that the clubs have stopped even telling us how much they've coughed up.

You can test my theory that we have no idea how much a player should cost by picking a name from our Deadline Day Transfer Blog, Lewis Holtby. He could be leaving Spurs. You know Lewis, nice hair, looks like he smells of soap, you could take him home to meet your mam and he'd not poo on the carpet. He's a useful, once-loved player, now out of favour. How much would you pay for him? Spurs paid £1.5m for him. He's 23 and for a while was axiomatic to the Spurs midfield. So how much for Holtby - £2m, £5m, £10m? He's young with great potential, so maybe £15m or £20m?

You don't know do you? You haven't a clue. None of us has. If he's sold today for any number at all we won't know if that's a lot, some or not much for a man of his talent and not even Jim White's staring eyes can resolve that for us because, in the words of Jefferson Airplane, logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:35 am 
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Some of that article makes reasonable points but other parts are silly. Acting surprised that a transfer fee might be determined by the desperation of the buyer? Isn't that just.. Business? You want A...? Well we have A... You can have A for this much if you really want to have A.

What business do we know where someone says "God I really want that, like really I badly need that thing you have"... And the other guy says" aw, you seem to really be desperate, have it on me and think nothing if it mate".

And of course it matters how close you are to the end of the window.. The closer you the more desperate the buyer is if he needs something. Similarly if the seller needs to sell, they're more likely to accept low offers nearer the deadline. And if they're less bothered about a player then, again, yes they're more likely to accept low offers than waste time bargaining.

The SSN show is a farce, a complete farce, but it is entertaining at times. How they continued to be allowed to go live to the stadiums after the first couple of "f*ck her in the p*ssy" shouts I'll never know. And then the dildo incident... But they carried on. Because it ceases to be news and they know it.. It's entertainment day and they're all dressed in f*cking yellow.

The mental transfers aren't down deadline day. It's been this way ever since Roman turned up. Since that season he bought people like Duff, good player as he was, for £17m..and Mutu for £15m..and spent about £120m overall. That's when English spending started going mad. Let's not forget they once paid £21m for SWP. It's not sudden that clubs are way overpaying for a young English player.

And outside of that bubble you'd always have the massive buy once every few years. Be it Zidane or Figo Etc.

This year we've got the new TV money on top, so it's bound to go crazy again.

Deadline day adds to it but it's not the reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:33 am 
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I just think having a deadline creates a panic where some teams maybe buy more than they actually needed out of panic from an iffy start to the season and because they have this money from TV etc they all seem desperate to spend it on short term fixes rather than invest the long term problems at their club.

I think because of the money in the PL clubs are so scared of relegation and the fact they lose the TV money if they go down they get desperate and spend every manager these days wants to spend his way out of trouble which is why Palace found it so hard to find a new manager because they wont gamble the future of the club on staying in the league.

I just don't see why we need a deadline day in August? Leave the window open if teams need to buy and sell they will just have deadline day at the end of January half way through the season.

The SSN thing is getting a bit ridiculous now it's almost becoming a parody of itself they make it sound like the most important day in the sporting calender every year you'd think we're all getting the day off work for it or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Anyone got any fresh views on this now we've gone through another window?

Still think the whole thing needs ripped up I see no point in the summer one just let the window stay open until the end of January then after that no more signings/sales until the end of the season.

I know it'll cause a bit of a mess with some of the european competitions as players in theory could move from one club to another but they'd be cup tied anyway so all you'd potentailly get is big club weakening an opponent but even then I don't see that happening very often.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the Transfer Window Work?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:29 pm 
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Either that or the window closes before the leagues start. The one thing that does my head in is going in to the season without your finalised squads. The window is open from July 1st? Why come August 14th are we still running around looking for players. If I was a manager I'd want all my deals done in the down month of June ready to come in for he first day of preseason. It's mental that we are still working on deals with 10 minutes to go on deadline day when you've got between now and July 1st to ensure players are ready to come straight in.

I'd also think about removing the January transfer window completely. One window between June 1st (why wait until July?) to August 1st. Come August 1st that's you done and your squad for the season.

The only issue for this is clubs needing to sell players to keep themselves a float. Perhapd have a different rule for top tier clubs and lower tier clubs?

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