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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Former England and Chelsea player Ray Wilkins has denied drink driving at almost three times the legal limit.

The Sky Sports pundit was arrested near his home in Cobham, Surrey, in the early hours of May 7.

The 55-year-old, who notched up 84 caps for England during his playing days, was driving a Jaguar XP when he was pulled over in Fairmile Lane in the town at 1.50am.

He is accused of having 102 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath - the legal limit is 35 microgrammes.

He would have been celebrating Chelsea's fine Champions League victory over Bayern Munich on Saturday night, but on Monday appeared at North Surrey Magistrates’ Court in Staines-Upon-Thames.

Wilkins, sporting a pale grey suit and grey stripped tie, pleaded not guilty to the charge.

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Delight: Wilkins will be ecstatic about Chelsea's Champions League triumph

During his career he played at various clubs including Chelsea, Manchester United, AC Milan and Queens Park Rangers. He was awarded an MBE in 1993 for services to football.

Wilkins will be tried at the same court on August 20.


#marvelous #stayonyourfeet

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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:36 am 
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BT Vision have offered Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand the chance to be their main football pundit as they continue the search for a current player to be the face of their Premier League coverage.

Respected sports media commentator Charles Sale reports in the Daily Mail that an offer has been made but admits that the 34-year-old may choose to continue playing.

"Ferdinand, who is heavily involved in a number of his own media projects, is understood to have other broadcasting offers, too," writes Sale.

"But the central defender, 34, is still a first choice for United manager Sir Alex Ferguson - if not England - when fit.

"And it would be a surprise if he hangs up his boots so soon to start a TV career."

Sale did however mention that former England striker James Beattie had impressed on screen tests but that they want a bigger man to be main pundit.

BT had originally hoped to bring in Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher but he is expected to take up a coaching role or sign for Sky Sports.

BT has won the rights to screen 38 of the best Premier League matches each season for three years, starting from August 2013, and is expected to launch its channel around the start of the 2013/2014 Premier League season.

Their collection will include 18 'first-pick' matches, where they will have the option of the best games of the weekend, with ex-BBC Sport presenter Jake Humphrey fronting the football coverage.

They have also signed up Clare Balding who will front a weekly sports magazine show for the channel as they look to complete a sporting line-up that also includes premium rights packages to show live WTA Tennis and Aviva Premiership and Heineken Cup rugby.

According to Tuesday's Daily Express, the channel is also discussing acquiring pre-existing rights from ESPN for the FA Cup, German Bundesliga and Europa League football.


Might be a bit early for Rio not sure what he'd be like as a pundit to me it's just them wanting a big name rather than getting someone who knows what they're talking about.

Carragher despite being hard to understand at times due to his thick accent actually talked some sense when covering the Euro's and like Neville he wont be afriad of giving an opinion. Would be interesting if both of them ended up on Sky next season

On a side note heard Owen doing the co commentary on the Liverpool game on MOTD2 on Sunday. His voice just isn't a voice for TV/Radio it's so boring.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:42 am 
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I thought Lee Dixon was off there :dunno:


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:48 am 
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I believe Dixon is already signed up as is Jake Humphries (BBC Formula 1 guy) as the presenter.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:50 am 
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Dixon hung his boots up a few years back, sounds like they want a current / newly retired guy. Carragher could be a good shout, could see him on Sky though.

Owen is terrible :lol:

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idontfeardeath wrote:
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But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:53 am 
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JSP wrote:
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On a side note heard Owen doing the co commentary on the Liverpool game on MOTD2 on Sunday. His voice just isn't a voice for TV/Radio it's so boring.


When I heard his voice I couldn't quite believe it. When he started to refer to Gerrard as Stevie I turned the bloody sound off.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:58 am 
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Moyes_Is_God wrote:
JSP wrote:
Quote:
On a side note heard Owen doing the co commentary on the Liverpool game on MOTD2 on Sunday. His voice just isn't a voice for TV/Radio it's so boring.


When I heard his voice I couldn't quite believe it. When he started to refer to Gerrard as Stevie I turned the bloody sound off.


:lol: he's rubbish, has the most boring voice in the history of mankind... be more exciting having Steven Hawking doing the punditry!!

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idontfeardeath wrote:
Spawny wrote:
But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:41 pm 
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The internet has widely adopted Godwin's Law, which states that the longer an online discussion continues, the greater the probability of a comparison involving the Nazis or Hitler. In footballing discussion, I'd like to propose a similar version known as Savage's Law. Namely, the longer a caller to a radio phone-in stays on air, the greater the probability that the pundit will dismiss their argument on the basis that they've never played the game to the highest level.

There's a lot of criticism you can direct at fans who call phone-in shows – and more often the producers who let on some of the more deluded types – but a lack of knowledge of how the game works isn't one of them. Broadly, we all know the principles of football. We're pretty au fait with the rules and, thanks to Sky's endless replays of even a minor bit of controversy, some of the finer points of the laws and tactical variations in football. All of which makes the professional pundit's insistence that football is some quasi-mystical cult that a mere mortal can't possibly understand all the more patronising.

That might work if you're trying to debate the existence of God or interpret the Bible, but is less effective when the caller in question is querying the use of a 4-5-1 at home against the worst team in the league rather than an abstract point of theology.

Even the most unfit or unsporty of us will have played a reasonable amount of football at some point in our lives, with a good number still wheezing around a five-aside pitch on a weeknight or a soggy field on a Sunday morning. And if you play the game regularly enough, you start picking up a little bit of tactical knowledge.

You'll know it's probably not a good idea for your entire team to run forward and leave no cover at the back, "Hollywood balls" invariably don't work, team-mates shouting to tell you where to stand is quite helpful and having the instinct to know where to position yourself when you don't have the ball is surprisingly difficult.

This knowledge can quite easily be transferred to the art of armchair punditry. It's reasonably easy to understand why a team gets caught on a break, why the positioning and distribution of some players leaves a lot to be desired and why one team struggles to break down a balanced opposition working well together. Anybody who plays even on a casual basis will recognise the traits of their own team in Premier League matches.

You don't have to be tactically adept at football to understand how the hacking around of a group of overweight 40-somethings isn't a million miles away from Robin van Persie and co. It doesn't matter that, like me, you can barely control the ball without shinning it sideways – lack of talent on the pitch doesn't preclude a fan from their own brand of punditry and offering up opinions that are often no less informed than those paid to express them for a living.

For the pundits, you start to wonder if they're viewing football through a Platonic prism. That is, there is one perfect version of football and only the pundit can know the true meaning of how the game should be played.

Indeed, some of the conversations conducted around match analysis aren't a million miles away from Plato's Socratic dialogues, whereby the speaker attempts to dazzle those listening with his logic. Meanwhile the supporting cast offer up either complete agreement or a mild question, which is batted away with ease. Or in the case of Steve Claridge, develops into an argument with yourself.

There will always be some ex-players who still command a certain respect. Gary Neville, a decent pundit elevated to a higher level because the alternatives are so poor, and Alan Hansen, when he can be bothered, still offer a degree of insight beyond what the majority of us can achieve. But then they don't come across as the type of people to dismiss a fan's opinion because of a lack of experience on the field of play either.

As for those who seem determined to implement Savage's Law, they should try huffing and puffing around a flaking astroturf or dog poo-laden pitch for 60 minutes trying to stop the one half-decent player on the opposition team – while simultaneously attempting to put all thoughts of a hangover to one side and ignoring the local children laughing at their lack of ability. Quite simply, they haven't played the game to my requisite level to know what they're talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:03 pm 
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I thought Savage's law was something to do with having to look like you've just finished appearing on TOWIE :shrug:

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idontfeardeath wrote:
Spawny wrote:
But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:18 pm 
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Strangely enough Lineker's brother Wayne has been in the latest series of TOWIE something Gary has been ripping him about on twitter.

There is definitely a snobbery when it comes to some pundits and ex players the you didn't play the game so you don't know what you're talking about attitude and there is some truth in that but rather than explain why the person is wrong they tend to just talk down to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:45 pm 
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JSP wrote:
Strangely enough Lineker's brother Wayne has been in the latest series of TOWIE something Gary has been ripping him about on twitter.

There is definitely a snobbery when it comes to some pundits and ex players the you didn't play the game so you don't know what you're talking about attitude and there is some truth in that but rather than explain why the person is wrong they tend to just talk down to them.


Not sure which is worse, being on TOWIE or being a jug-eared t**t who goes into panic mode and freezes when the auto-cue breaks down :shrug:

Yeah, there are some pundits who're not as bad, but a lot of them do take that attitude. Mostly it's the ones who clearly know naff all anyway that try to defend their opinions like that.

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idontfeardeath wrote:
Spawny wrote:
But James and Pak both said they were voting JSP


:doh:

You know what Paks like. He's probably voted JSP for woman of the year or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:53 pm 
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I think the reason people took to Neville was his enthusiasm when he describes something you can see he's genuinely annoyed when a player makes a basic defensive error or excited when he sees a moment of sublime skill or a great goal. He combines that with some up to date knowledge in terms of how football is played because he didn't have loads of natural ability he had to be a student of the game and listen to the coaches/managers to survive as long as he did at a club like Utd.

I watch a show called ESPN Press Pass and on that show they normally have a presenter, a journalist and an ex player and the balance works well because you get a bit of balance on how everyone sees things. I think the coverage might improve if the studio wasn't just full of ex players all the time and we might end up with some better debate.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Yeah, Match Of The Day has run it's course. Very tired-looking now. Needs fresh blood. Ex players and journos. Get some fresh debate going as you say, JSP. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:32 pm 
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I think the BBC have a problem in that they're scraping the barrel in terms of what they can attract.

Sky, BT & ITV will all offer more money to the people who are any good and the whole place stinks of being a bit of an old boys network. People who aren't doing a good job aren't replaced. With football you have a captive audience and viewing figures will remain pretty steady because people want to watch the games.

For me MOTD doesn't really need punditry just show the goals and post match interviews then have a review show on say the Monday night where you've had a chance to put some decent packages together. On 5 live they have the Monday night club which is a mixture of ex players/journos and you get some interesting debate why not put that on TV.

It still baffles me how Lawro keeps his job all he ever does is moan about how cr*p things are. Yeah it must really suck to be paid to travel all over the world and watch football. Try telling us something we can't see instead of cracking sh*t jokes


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Robbie Savage was never one for considered, cautious judgement. So it came as no great surprise when he completely wrote off Manchester City's chances of staging a recovery against Barcelona.

Given that City are 2-0 down ahead of a second leg at the Camp Nou, it was perfectly understandable for him to give Manuel Pellegrini's side little chance.

But what was perhaps shocking was that the BT Sport and BBC Sport man decided to put his career on the line by vowing that he would "stop working" if City end up going through.

Speaking on BBC Radio Five Live after the match at the Etihad Stadium, the Welshman said: "If Manchester City win the tie in the Nou Camp, I will stop working."

Predictably, the promise was almost immediately met by a barrage of approval from excited football fans on social media.

Savage, very much the Marmite of the football punditry world with his love-him-or-hate-him persona, may now find that he has inspired a whole new band of City supporters.

It would represent one of the more remarkable comebacks in Champions League history if Pellegrini's side were to overturn their two-goal deficit following goals from Lionel Messi and Dani Alves, but it's not entirely out of the question.

The Catalan side will have it all to lose at the Camp Nou in the second leg and City, ever the hit-or-miss side, could yet shock Europe if they are at their mercurial best.

One thing is for sure: there will be many more people eager to see City prevail while Savage hopes that his comments do not come back to bite him.


I don't mind Savage I don't particularly agree with a lot of what he says but he's not afraid to have an opinion and back it

Pretty sure he ended up buying a Newcastle fan a new Taxi over a bet they made on 6*6 the season they finished 5th.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:57 am 
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As someone quite rightly put it I imagine the last thing a grieving mother wants to hear when her sons come home from a war in a coffin is an England footballer being forced to give her a phone call because he can't be bothered to play in an England friendly.

Playing for England isn't anywhere near the same level as putting your life on the line to defend your country so comparing the two is completly pointless.

If you want to do the right thing why not name them publically and ban them from the national team for 12 months unless they have a very good reason for dropping out of matches.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:52 am 
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This World Cup has made our goggle-eyed pair too soft - they've even got nice things to say about Andy Townsend and Robbie Savage. And Gary Lineker is king...


Gary Lineker
We know Gary has his critics but we ask you this: can you imagine anyone more at ease in this context? His ability to keep things relaxed and comfortable may not appeal to those seeking a more punk rock approach to football presenting, but that's surely not a realistic wish in the first place. Being self-effacing and warm to order is not an easy gig and Gary manages to be intelligent without seeming aloof.

As confidence has grown, he has added the occasional sharp interjection to his hosting role - for instance, pulling Danny Murphy up for his copybook-blotting "you see Costa Rica and Greece in the quarters and you just think, if only England..." Lineker correctly called bullsh*t on this, noting sharply, "Well, England would have had to win at least one game, you know" or words to that effect.

Clearly a decent man and almost entirely without side, he also engages with the public via social media with good grace. This has been his best tournament so far.


Alan Shearer
He's given us some of his greatest hits: the squinting, the grinning, the sitting with legs apart, the shiny shirts. To this, he has added clearly having a bloody good time. We think this is important. The last thing we want to see is someone straining over their art form as though it is an especially compacted stool. Football is a laugh, it's fun and here it's also been bloody great.

He's done a couple of 'Alan walks around in slow-motion wearing sunglasses' film clips but none has made us want to bite our own feet in embarrassment. In his opportunities for analysis (which we typed as Alanysis and think that's much better) the feeling that "this is just bloody great fun, this" pervades and we really like that.

Also, credit it where it is due: has clearly upped his game and done work on the players on display. Still very prone to say over-worked, self-evident guff such as "they lack quality in the final third" but live football TV isn't the place for more profound statements of human existence.


Alan Hansen
Feels like last tour of duty for the Scotsman and as such we might have expected him to pull out some of his early hit singles "pace...power...", but actually, like a grizzled old rocker bowing out from the stage, he's rediscovered his passion for the gig.


Mark Lawrenson
For a while we thought he must be being a miserablist on purpose. Then we realised it's just how he is. He won't change. He can't change. And while it's quite admirable that he doesn't get with the happy-clappy thing, sounding like you're fed up all the time has a limited aesthetic appeal. But we know Mark won't care about this because we are on the internet and we know that this means he thinks we're nebbish, nerdy virgins. And he is right.


Glenn Hoddle
We'd like Glenn so much more if only he'd have a laugh more often. When he does you feel a lot more happy to hear him mangle the English language and find places for verbs where no verb ever expected to be placed. A bit of joy is a powerful brew and goes a long way, Glenn. Grotesque, testicle/trouser interface incidents aside, he looks like someone's well-off dad abroad wearing his holiday clothes, which is as it should be. Calling Algeria 'Al Jazeera' was excellent. Saying that "African teams need to have a free spirit about themselves; they were shackled in that game" perhaps less so.

Alarmingly, we now notice at least a few calls each week in the press for Glenn to be given some sort of coaching/tactics overlord role within English football. Cos he's dead clever, people now seem to have decided. Strikes us that Glenn is the sort of intellectual whom only the thick consider an intellectual. Speaking of which...


Robbie Savage
Another of the 'having a great time on my holidays' brigade, we've enjoyed watching Robbie fill a seat on the studio. He's not without his distinctive qualities, nor, we're sure without his fans. He brings genuine enthusiasm, a quality that is sometimes lacking in the TV studio. Some may feel he's a little too aware of this fact. Anyone expecting advanced verbal extemporisations will be disappointed, but that would be to misunderstand why he's there. And we feel there are few better at expressing what goes through an unpretentious, simple football mind.


Ian Wright
We've watched Wrighty trying to do serious analysis and it usually isn't much to look at. In fact, despite years of cringing at the wriggling, twisting, hyperactive Wrighty, we've settled on the view that if he has to be there, better he be there as a jester than as an analyst. His persistent reference to Hoddle as 'gaffer' has gone from being amusing to vaguely sinister, the repetition giving it an almost ironic quality.


Martin Keown
Half of this column recently looked at its school report from third year. For chemistry it said 'no obvious aptitude in this subject'. That.


Lee Dixon
ITV's little bit of quality and a man who we feel wants to do more serious work but is hampered by ITV's lack of desire to allow him. Still, it remains a relief to see him there because you know he won't deliver any stupids.


Gordon Strachan
For a man who has spent a lot of his career being a tad fractious with interviewers and the media in general, the wee banana man has never looked more comfortable in his own skin. Doing live TV clearly offers no fears and he brings an almost casual but nonetheless gimlet eye to proceedings. We especially enjoyed his suggestion that hirsute Greek striker Georgie Samaras, whom he managed at Celtic, was "almost too good" and didn't want to show others up with his talent, which we assumed was an extended joke on his part. Excellent realpolitik assessment of the Suarez situation and the rank hypocrisy of players, owners, managers and fans alike, in which Gordon basically argued that a brilliant player will be forgiven literally anything, whereas a youth player would have been sacked for the same crime.


Patrick Vieira
Not our cup of tea. Not terrible or anything. Just don't really see the point.


Chris Waddle
Got off another excellent rant about England, which is becoming something of a party piece for him at tournaments. We like his line in withering disgust, and we also greatly enjoy that he just looks so unglamorous, so unmetrosexual, so un-TV. If the Waddler had a tattoo, we're pretty sure it wouldn't be of Armani, it would be of 'Mam' or maybe a brand of cigarettes.


Sam Matterface
Porridge.


Clarke Carlisle
Michael the Travel Tavern handyman.


Jonathan Pearce
Made early claim for the strangest commentary stint of the tournament by having bizarre tantrum about goal-line technology during France v Honduras, seemingly unable to grasp that the ball wasn't over the line (event A) and then a little bit later it was (event B). Fair enough, everyone makes mistakes - just stop yelling about it.


Matt Smith
ITV number two presenter who really should be number one. We love his relaxed style and the rapport he strikes up with his guests. While surely being grateful for the work, it must grate that he is regarded by ITV as the man who does it if Adrian doesn't. Technically, we feel he is just really on top of his game. Doesn't do that blank stare accompanied with halting.speech.because.someone.is.counting.in.his.ear that is often a weak spot for commercial TV broadcasters. Also has a nice spark to his eyes which hints at a man who has an interesting hinterland.


Adrian Chiles
We don't ride the train to Chiles Town with any great passion but we also don't join in the vicious bashing he gets. You can't say he's not distinctive, but he has that lugubrious thing going on which is very much all his own. All you can do is be yourself and we're sure he's being that. He can be funny too and at least he's not an out-of-the-box talking head. Our only real critique is that technically, he seems to struggle sometimes - umming and ahhing his way to ad breaks and film clips.


Tim Vickery
To the mainstream football watcher, The Vickery will not be a familiar sight, indeed his work often happens on the World Service. However, as a South American football analyst, he is peerless. For us, he has been the star of the whole of the BBC output. Firstly, he speaks on radio and TV with a confident but not strident authority; he knows his gig inside and out with a calm confidence. We especially love how he has put the tournament into a cultural and political context. We just wish he was used as a regular mainstream guy and not as a purveyor of exotica from distant lands.


Clive Tyldesley
He's consistent is Clive. Never has a bad gig. If you like him, you'll have enjoyed his World Cup, if you don't, you won't. Has given us all his classics.


Andy Townsend
Somehow, nothing gives us more joy than an really good AT co-comm. By good we mean, one which he gets his first "that's better", "in and around" and a "not for me Clive" all in within 15 minutes. We may have gone through the looking glass with Andy. All the things that used to annoy us we now find curiously endearing. We were once told by a very good guitarist that if you played a few notes out of key, you should make sure you did it over and over again so that people think you meant it and thus transforming a mistake into a creative expression. Andy is like that. And y'know, God bless him for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Jamie Carragher absolutely savaged Arsenal defender Per Mertesacker during Sky Sports’ broadcast of Monday Night Football.

Carragher, as usual, was sharing punditry duties with Gary Neville and tore into the Germany international, who was Arsenal’s stand-in captain for the 3-2 loss to Stoke City.

Mertesacker was held responsible for all three Stoke goals in the first half, but Carragher reserved his most stinging criticism for the conclusion of his scorching takedown of the centre-half.

CARRAGHER ON STOKE'S FIRST GOAL

“The first challenge with Crouch, again he is nowhere to be seen. Now he has got a decision to make. He will get there, even though he is not as quick as Kieran Gibbs, a lot quicker and easier than him, so his first decision he thinks, ‘I don’t fancy going out there’. He allows Kieran Gibbs to come back in but if he is not going to get out there and stop the cross, he has to put himself in a position to protect these (players) – Bellerin at the back post, Martinez the keeper, Chambers – he just lets the ball come in across him. Chambers has a nightmare and completely misses the ball but he is a young player. He is having a hard time, we saw that at Swansea, but he is getting no help. Again, Mertesacker messes up there – what confidence is that giving these young lads around him?"

CARRAGHER ON STOKE'S SECOND GOAL

“They find themselves in a similar position. The ball goes wide. As it comes now to Jonathan Walters, who is going to open his body up, Mertesacker is on the same line as Gibbs. How can he possibly stop a cross that is going to come in there? Again he has got to move position and he has got to help these and protect them and stop them getting asked questions by balls coming into the box against Peter Crouch. Again, he takes the easy option, let them deal with it. Bojan runs on (and scores)."

CARRAGHER ON STOKE'S THIRD GOAL

“This could be the worst one of the lot. This is a set-piece … Chambers and Bellerin, the two young lads in the team again, eyes on the ball. They are the ones who are going to challenge Crouch and Shawcross. Mertesacker, not even looking at the ball."

CARRAGHER ON MERTESACKER'S PERFORMANCE

"You're in a game away at Stoke in a tough venue - let your players around you know you're not going to accept what's going on. This is your captain on the day. We talk about leadership, character - like (Arsene) Wenger always talks about after the game. He's abandoned ship, he's left them on their own and that is not acceptable for a player of that quality and experience. He's abandoned ship. It's just not acceptable."


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:26 pm 
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General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31154
Location: Milton Keynes
Thierry Henry is joining Sky as a pundit for next year :thumbup:

Think it'll be good to add a top class striker to their stable of pundits especially one who's played in a number of top European Leagues and won the lot both in England, Spain and with France.

Think he'll be an interesting additional plus he's one cool mother f*cker


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 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:21 am
Posts: 7633
How Phil Neville is keeping a job in this game is beyond me.

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JSP wrote:
No longer do you have to settle for a fatty-boom-batty at the end of the night you can get yourself a reasonable looking sl*g.


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