AwayGoalsRule Football Forum

The Internet's Finest Football Forum

Get moneyback specials on your football betting at PaddyPower


It is currently Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:23 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:20 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
borocooper wrote:
How Phil Neville is keeping a job in this game is beyond me.


I don't mind him I think he's getting better as he goes

I have to say Shearer is a lot better these days seems prepared to do more than just point out the obvious these days.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:32 pm 
Offline
Brigadier General
Brigadier General

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:21 am
Posts: 7633
He doesn't say anything.. Then he said Ivanovic has a right to go down.. He summarised one game and even Lineker said ".. Is that it?".

He's rubbish.

_________________
JSP wrote:
No longer do you have to settle for a fatty-boom-batty at the end of the night you can get yourself a reasonable looking sl*g.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:02 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
I wasn't really paying attention the other night but from memory the "is that it?" Thing didn't really need much more to be said. I thought it was a throw away comment he made at the end of some analysis they'd already done.

Don't get me wrong he's not brilliant but he's getting better and to be fair on diving like his brother they're quite cynical about it both say if you feel contact in the box you go down. That's just the way the pros see it I don't particularly agree with it but when the directive seems to be that contact = a foul I can see why they do it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:50 pm 
Offline
Sergeant-Major
Sergeant-Major
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:50 pm
Posts: 865
Location: Blackwater
I find Fizzer trite and predictable. The Beeb love to throw our license money at ex-players disguised as analysts. They particularly take the piss with Savage - at least Phil Neville is likeable. But insightful he's not. And that's what I want from commentators and pundits - insight and analysis that is not obvious to me as a non player. You get almost one of that from the Match of the Day sofa warmers though Shearer has been improving.

You gotta hand it to Sky in hoovering up G-Nev and Jamie Carragher. They're a class above what you get on BBC and ITV.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:06 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
I think MOTD is a tough gig as they've not been at the games so they can only see what the TV pictures tell them and the whole show is cobbled together to go out 4 or 5 hours after the games have finished so chances are the pundits have maybe only seen a few of the games in full. The way I've heard it works on the 3 o'clock games is basically each pundit and Linekar concentrate on one game and watch the 90 minutes the other 3 o'clock games are watched by a couple of researchers who knock together a bit of a highlights package and a few bits for them to talk about. The stuff sky do especially on the Monday night with Nev and Carragher is put together through the whole day by a whole team of researchers and analysts.

For me MOTD would work better if on the Saturday night they just showed the highlights and then manager interviews then on the Sunday night or even the Monday night they put a proper show together to analyse what happened over the weekend. I agree that it would be good to see a journalist or a non-football person on there giving opinion and looking at things from a different way but it would seem like the ex-footballers have the if you haven't played the game you can't possibly be an expert thing.

The only good thing on the BBC now is that the old guard are disappearing and people who at least played the game in the last 10 years are giving opinions on it so the opinion/insight is a bit more up to date.

I don't mind Savage he's a bit of an idiot sometimes but at least he gives an opinion on something that happens and doesn't mind upsetting people don't always have to agree with him but he says what he thinks.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:34 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:12 am
Posts: 19588
Highscores: 1
Skys Monday Night Football is excellent. Nevilles condemnation of Mignolet then backed up with evidence is something I wouldn't have even thought about let alone picked up on.

_________________
Because I'm young enough to be all pi**ed off
But I'm old enough to be jaded
I'm at the age where I want things to change
But with age my hopes have faded


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:24 pm 
Offline
Brigadier General
Brigadier General

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:21 am
Posts: 7633
Gary is great value I agree with that. Phil is just a bit odd, I watched the class of 92 the other night and he even seemed like the black sheep there, then all the God stuff came out.. That Romania business seemed to really screw him up.

_________________
JSP wrote:
No longer do you have to settle for a fatty-boom-batty at the end of the night you can get yourself a reasonable looking sl*g.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:26 am 
Offline
Sergeant-Major
Sergeant-Major
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:50 pm
Posts: 865
Location: Blackwater
JSP wrote:
I don't mind Savage he's a bit of an idiot sometimes but at least he gives an opinion on something that happens and doesn't mind upsetting people don't always have to agree with him but he says what he thinks.


Yes but we can get that from a guy in a pub. I want an expert's opinion based on an expert's knowledge. Otherwise we're back to that old adage about opinions being like a**holes (everybody's got one, doesn't mean you have to air it in public)

Besides which, Savage's opinions change with the wind and they are usually second hand opinions he's adopted from sharper minds than his. Watch his seasonal predictions change and the artifice with which he sells the illusion that his latest opinion is the one he held all along. It indicates someone who cares very much what people think - he's desperate for people to think he is right.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:56 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Adrian Chiles has been let go by ITV with immediate effect and will be replaced by Mark Pougatch


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:54 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:
Football pundit Robbie Savage is not, it's fair to say, popular with fans.

At World of Sport, we're cynical, world-weary types of course. We see through the whole thing: Savage knows that the only things worse than being hated for your punditry is being anonymous or boring.

And you can't accuse him of that, at least. The whole 'pantomime villain' thing has made him a mainstay of BBC Five Live radio and, increasingly, the BBC's televised football coverage.

Now, though, his notoriety has proved useful for more than just ensuring that he keeps his deal with the Corporation.

The former Wales international apparently successfully avoided a driving ban, despite being clocked at 99mph on the A1 in Knaresborough, North Yorkshire, last month, after attending an Alan Shearer charity ball with his wife Sarah.

His lawyers argued in court that taking public transport would simply be impossible for him, due to the huge amount of abuse that he would receive.

Indeed, Savage apparently told the court that he is already accosted by fans in the street - and that his £230,000 Bentley is a "safe haven" from the abuse that he gets on a near-constant basis.

The argument was successful, resulting in a £600 fine and three points.

The Sun explained more in its report:

"The ex-midfield hardman could have been banned for up to 28 days for speeding but got to keep driving after magistrates were told he was already 'regularly accosted'…

"His lawyer Philip Morris begged for him to be spared a ban, saying: 'When you are in the public eye and have to offer opinion on people’s football teams you are regularly accosted out in public.

"'Someone once described him as being like Marmite — you either love him or hate him.'"

The Sun also spoke to Gary Rae, a representative of road safety charity Brake.

“It’s an insult to those who have lost loved ones because of speeding drivers," said Rae.

“Driving at such a dangerous speed hardly makes his luxury car a ‘safe haven’ for other road users.

“I suspect Mr Savage will now be even more unpopular."

Somehow, we're not even sure that is even possible.

But if anyone can manage it, Savage can.


So if I got caught speeding would I get off because part of my job requires me to be able to drive all over the country at short notice making public transport not only a minefield to negotiate based on where I live but also prohibitably expensive so basically I'd lose my job if I lost my driving license.

Savage is a man of enough wealth that had he lost his license he could've employed a driver to take him to wherever he needs to be or paid for taxi's hell he probably could've got the BBC/BT to pay his expenses for travel if they want him.

There is no excuse for driving at 99mph on a public road that is 50% over the speed limit and anyone caught at those speed should be instantly banned but as these rich people can employ expensive lawyers they get away with it. The fact he's ended up with only 3 points is even more of a joke the punishment should at a minimum put him on the limit of a ban 1 more strike and your gone type punishment.

Just shows how easy life in their little bubble is as a celeb the only way you appear to get a ban from driving is if you get caught drink driving.

People speed I get that I do it but going that far over the limit even on a motorway at night is reckless and stupid and as a man in his late 30's/early 40's he should really know better.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:34 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:
Our intrepid chums find their way to the door of Andy Townsend, currently embarking on a farewell tour at ITV. If anything, Clive, he hung onto the job too well...

Our rock 'n' roll hedonists Alan Tyers and John Nicholson fiddle with their stylus, wipe the static from their Porky Prime Cut 12 inchers and squint through whiskey-soaked eyes at football people on the telly. This week they witness Andy Townsend's farewell tour and feel all fuzzy.

Fashion Police
Andy dresses like A Man. No concession to the outlandish, nothing that might indicate fashion passion or verve. Nothing that looks expensive because expensive would suggest vanity or foppishness. Basically, he favours clothes that can be bought out of a Kays catalogue by his wife or mother on an easy-to-afford 52-week instalment plan. Everything about Andy is emotionally repressed behind non-committal dark clothing. No slacks shame here. Plain shirts are a norm or a two colour small check if he's on holiday. Golf club-style tie fully embraced. In short, Andy's clothes are the sort of clothes that would feel fully at home on the set of Top Gear.


Lingo Bingo
Andy is the Frank Zappa of co-commentary: as soon as you hear him, you always know who it is. This strikes us as a major achievement and it has happened because of Andy's unique relationship with the English language, a relationship that some might characterise as abusive. In Andy's world, we don't want to see that, with his quality you'd expect better, he's got that in his locker, it's a soft one, he can do that, not for me, Clive. It's a fine lexicon of clichés, many of which have been elevated to teeth-grinding overfamiliarity by Andy himself.

Sometimes he just seems to say something for the sake of saying something. For example, talking about England last night he said "They're ready to put in a performance to beat a side like this," despite offering no evidence as to why, or what it might even mean. When Harry Kane was clobbered by Giorgio Chiellini his advice to England's Lion was "you've got to pick yourself up and get on with it", as though there was any sign of Kane doing anything other than that. This stating the obvious thing is one of the basic characteristics of his work. When Phil Jagielka was caught in possession on the edge of England's penalty area, what was Andy's advice? "He's got to be careful, there." Surely, this doesn't take a well-paid ex-pro to state?


Hits And Misses
Has never lived down the Tactics Truck. The cornball alliteration ruined the concept as much as anything else, making it cheaper and more tabloid and thus, less credible. Andy is a strange bird. He hasn't changed his game in all these years and he's still playing the same old riffs to the same old audience to the same old level of dissatisfaction. The world of punditry and co-comms has changed. Games have been upped. Some are very good now. Andy has ignored the tide and just ploughed on saying "that's better" and "if anything, he's hit that too well". Sometimes, we can hear him starting one of these famous pet phrases, half stop, as though recognising the over-familiarity but, then, unable to come up with anything else, he delivers the cliché anyway.

We could sit here and list any amount of Andy-isms and say they're nonsense, but, as he is on his farewell ITV tour, a last hurrah before darker days playing matinees in provincial theatres to drunks and people sheltering from the rain, we feel that would be mean and churlish. We'll miss Andy when he's gone. He has become like a pair of warm, radiator-dried socks on a cold morning or like staring out of the pub window at half-three on a Tuesday afternoon, comfortably numb. His marginalisation, as ITV waves goodbye to the football big time, has made him a slightly sad and sympathetic, almost tragicomic character.


Big Club Bias
We don't sense any BCB in Andy, beyond the PFM's innate worship of the successful. Andy is too wedded to the competitive spirit to have disdain for the lower life forms on the sports ladder. His bias, rather, is held against those for whom sport is not a thing in their lives. We can only imagine the askance, blank look he'd give you if you said you preferred listening to acoustic blues music and reading 20th century American literature rather than Watching Sport.


Loved Or Loathed
There's no dressing it up, for years Andy has had few fans. However, we sense this has changed a little in recent months. Finally, his work is getting some overdue recognition, not for any in-depth football knowledge, perception or content, but for its unique Townsendy flavour, in the same way an unpopular variety of crisps does shortly after it's announced that the product is going to be discontinued. Or how a widely lampooned and derided Prime Minister, once slayed at the ballot box, is quickly re-cast in the popular imagination as a noble, wise older statesman. Andy could yet be football's John Major. Or cheese Monster Munch.

A recent appearance on BT Sport alongside a younger, better educated team of ex-pros really showed him up as a man out of time, floundering to compete for expression, perception and articulation. A man whose ship had finally sailed and left him in the port, forever spinning in behind the defenders and knocking it into the channels, where he was always going to hit it. And it was a sad thing to witness. But all this being said, when Andros Townsend scored against Italy, we could still hear Andy yelling his appreciation in the background and, you know, that's a good thing. Rather that than cold analysis. Maybe, like an ageing midfielder who needs a young buck to do his running for him, Andy could be paired with a less passionate, more articulate co-commentator and do his shouting for him.

However, one thing we have definitely learned about the world of work is that Woody Allen's maxim that "80 percent of success is showing up" is very true. We would go further and say that "90 percent of success is showing up and not being a total dick to work with." We are certain that Andy is a good guy, a nice bloke to work with and not a prima donna, and probably not demanding a massive salary. And you know what? For a long time, that was plenty for televised football, until other pundits raised the game and TV suits started to take notice of online dislike for him.


Proper Football Man
A classic PFM. Played the game at all levels from international to non-league and thus has the essential mix of man's man, pie-arsed labourer and successful high achiever, which is the platform all true PFMs stand on. Has chunky thighs, all the better for grabbin' 'n' squeezin' and the default notion that yer foreign is a diver that goes down too easily, a conviction no amount of contrary evidence can dislodge. Has that shameless quality needed for PFM-style practical jokes involving buckets of sour milk and dog poo.

We imagine Andy has hollow legs, likes a good night out and would undoubtedly need Reidy's special pneumatic tyre wheelbarrow of shame to convey him to a resting place after a heavy session involving a dog called Butch, a woman called Gloria (or was it the other way round?) a painful mishap with a bollard and someone injecting brandy into their eyes.


Beyond The Lighted Stage
We doubt Andy has any cultural hinterland though are prepared to speculate that he likes a History Channel documentary on the Nazis and possibly enjoys a puzzler book or some colouring in. His TV is probably locked on sports channels most of the time and he strikes us as a chap who would watch anything up to and including downhill water skiing from Lake Geneva, as long as it was on a sports channel. Definitely the sort of man who, when asked what his hobbies are would say, "I like my sport". It is "his" sport too... not anyone else's.

Andy seems straight out of the driving gloves, Tina Turner Greatest Hits bought from Sandbach Services along with some sweets in a tin world. Post-impressionist abstract paintings are definitely the sort of thing anyone could do, while cooking is something for women and foreign people in restaurants.

But as his last "not for me, Clive" echoes into a dark Wednesday night, somewhere in the heart of Europe, we shall wipe a quiet tear from our eye and hoist our sensible dark trousers a little bit higher to celebrate the passing of his career. At least until he pops up on American telly or Al-Jazeera and then we'll lose all sympathy and start shouting at the TV again and wondering just how he picked up a wage for so long. If anything, Clive, he's hung onto the job too well.


Townsend still lives in a world where he thinks fans of all clubs give a sh*t about what the other British sides do in Europe and want to see them win.

When it comes to the modern football fan (I include myself in this) English/British clubs crashing out of Europe can't come soon enough if Utd aren't going to win the European Cup/Europa League then it has to be a foreign club :cheers:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:14 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:12 am
Posts: 19588
Highscores: 1
JSP wrote:
Quote:
Football pundit Robbie Savage is not, it's fair to say, popular with fans.

At World of Sport, we're cynical, world-weary types of course. We see through the whole thing: Savage knows that the only things worse than being hated for your punditry is being anonymous or boring.

And you can't accuse him of that, at least. The whole 'pantomime villain' thing has made him a mainstay of BBC Five Live radio and, increasingly, the BBC's televised football coverage.

Now, though, his notoriety has proved useful for more than just ensuring that he keeps his deal with the Corporation.

The former Wales international apparently successfully avoided a driving ban, despite being clocked at 99mph on the A1 in Knaresborough, North Yorkshire, last month, after attending an Alan Shearer charity ball with his wife Sarah.

His lawyers argued in court that taking public transport would simply be impossible for him, due to the huge amount of abuse that he would receive.

Indeed, Savage apparently told the court that he is already accosted by fans in the street - and that his £230,000 Bentley is a "safe haven" from the abuse that he gets on a near-constant basis.

The argument was successful, resulting in a £600 fine and three points.

The Sun explained more in its report:

"The ex-midfield hardman could have been banned for up to 28 days for speeding but got to keep driving after magistrates were told he was already 'regularly accosted'…

"His lawyer Philip Morris begged for him to be spared a ban, saying: 'When you are in the public eye and have to offer opinion on people’s football teams you are regularly accosted out in public.

"'Someone once described him as being like Marmite — you either love him or hate him.'"

The Sun also spoke to Gary Rae, a representative of road safety charity Brake.

“It’s an insult to those who have lost loved ones because of speeding drivers," said Rae.

“Driving at such a dangerous speed hardly makes his luxury car a ‘safe haven’ for other road users.

“I suspect Mr Savage will now be even more unpopular."

Somehow, we're not even sure that is even possible.

But if anyone can manage it, Savage can.


So if I got caught speeding would I get off because part of my job requires me to be able to drive all over the country at short notice making public transport not only a minefield to negotiate based on where I live but also prohibitably expensive so basically I'd lose my job if I lost my driving license.

Savage is a man of enough wealth that had he lost his license he could've employed a driver to take him to wherever he needs to be or paid for taxi's hell he probably could've got the BBC/BT to pay his expenses for travel if they want him.

There is no excuse for driving at 99mph on a public road that is 50% over the speed limit and anyone caught at those speed should be instantly banned but as these rich people can employ expensive lawyers they get away with it. The fact he's ended up with only 3 points is even more of a joke the punishment should at a minimum put him on the limit of a ban 1 more strike and your gone type punishment.

Just shows how easy life in their little bubble is as a celeb the only way you appear to get a ban from driving is if you get caught drink driving.

People speed I get that I do it but going that far over the limit even on a motorway at night is reckless and stupid and as a man in his late 30's/early 40's he should really know better.


Just seen this. If you could prove you need your license for your job it's highly unlikely you would lose it. When I was in court with a friend recently the guy in front had 46 points on his license but still managed to plead the case to the judge and keep his license due to the fact he needed it for work and couldn't provide for his family without a car.

_________________
Because I'm young enough to be all pi**ed off
But I'm old enough to be jaded
I'm at the age where I want things to change
But with age my hopes have faded


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:34 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:
The former Liverpool player and manager Graeme Souness was taken into hospital on Friday. The 62-year-old is receiving treatment in a hospital in Bournemouth, close to his home in Poole, Dorset. No details of his condition were immediately available.

The former midfielder played 54 times for Scotland and won five league titles and three European Cups among his Liverpool honours and a Coppa Italia title with Sampdoria. As a manager, he led Rangers to three Scottish titles and four League Cups, before winning the 1992 FA Cup with Liverpool after undergoing heart bypass surgery.

He went on to manage Galatasaray – winning two domestic cup competitions – as well as Blackburn, where he won the 2002 League Cup, Southampton, Benfica and Newcastle.

He features in the Scottish national team, Rangers and English football Halls of Fame and, in a 2006 poll of Liverpool supporters, was named as the ninth most popular player in the club’s history. Since leaving Newcastle in 2006 he has worked as a media pundit.

Jeff Stelling opened Soccer Saturday with a message of support. “Souey, if you’re watching, get well very quickly,” he said.


Get well soon

Love his punditry on sky


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:21 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:

Kelly Cates (Dalglish)

Fashion police
In a culture which tends to define women primarily by how they look, rather than by the quality of their work, choosing what to wear to do your presenting gig must be tricky but Kelly plays it with a straight bat. Not a slave to the flashy or the uber fashionable, instead she relies on doing a solid presenting job and usually favours plain, understated, undemonstrative clothes in neutral colours to do it in. Occasionally rocks a well-cut suit. Smiles like she means it. Usually sports a side-parting of some sort. Basically looks like an all-round, consistently top notch pro.

Lingo bingo
Actually a proper Scotty but has lost the accent and replaced it with a more neutral flavour. The anglicized Scot always has a linguistic advantage because they have the ability to drop into the Scottish vernacular at any moment to add force and the suggestion of an imminent knife crime to any social situation.

I’m sure, given her west of Scotland roots, Kelly could give it a big ‘wits up wi’ yoor coupon, ye bawbag,’ at any time and I rather wish she would, as it would certainly make 606 more interesting.

On that show, she often has the lilting voice of a sympathetic nurse which means it sometimes sounds as if she’s Ian Wright’s carer.

Has a lovely infectious, rolling laugh, which is not to be underestimated in making a good broadcaster and communicator.

Hits and misses
Has worked on quite a few channels, in one capacity or another, for some time now, so is very much a familiar and friendly face. I doubt anyone groans when she pops up on TV or radio and that in itself is a big hit when you’re well-established because familiarity can breed contempt. This is possibly because she’s not an overbearing personality trying to ham it up for the camera or make out they’re some whacky funster. But that’s not to say she isn’t funny or entertaining when appropriate.

Currently fronting up Channel 5’s Football League coverage alongside George Riley. She’s a well-proven top professional and must surely be due a high profile, mass market gig soon, if she wants it. I wonder if there’s reluctance in case it looks like some form of nepotism?

The more relaxed, less formal setting of the radio studio, which requires interaction and communication without much of a script, is probably where she does her best work. She was superb on Fighting Talk and had plenty of grit to fight her corner. Always seems well across events, is cheerful and up for a bit of a laugh, and who can want more than that in this life?

That being said, the football phone-in feels like a dog that has long since had its day and is home to too many people who are an odd shade of stupid. One recent caller, a Manchester United fan, said he just wanted a manager who stood up more. He was serious, too. I mean, imagine having to treat these people as though they’re sentient? But Kelly does it all with good grace and a degree of professionalism that is often missing on 5live weekend phone-ins, and doesn’t so much as once keep repeating the same thing over and over in an ever-louder bleating voice, ignorant to how witless it is. Yeah, like I say, she’s a professional broadcaster.

Big club bias
For obvious reasons she is a massive Liverpool fan but this doesn’t seem to leak out into her 606 work, possibly because she’s preoccupied with trying to knock an over-excited Wrighty off the roof with a big stick. Presenting lower league football should also give you an appreciation of the dusty end of football’s fretboard, as will talking to Michael Bridges about Bolton Wanderers v Huddersfield Town….zzzz…sorry just dropped off for a moment there.

Loved or loathed
Women who present sports telly often get a tough time from the more reactionary elements of society, are subjected to sexist comments and too often judged first, foremost, and sometimes wholly, on appearance. Cates herself has said that being a Dalglish helped deflect the usual “get back in the kitchen, darlin’,” garbage because potential critics assumed she must have football in her blood and might have at least watched a few games. Even so, it’s not the easiest road to walk.

Channel 5’s football league programme was criticised early on, though less for its presenters and more for its structure. It seems to have settled down now, though is clearly on a wafer-thin budget.

You couldn’t not like Kelly, because she’s quite obviously a decent soul, always does a good job and brings a bit of sunshine with her. And there’s just no faking that most valuable asset for a broadcaster: likeability.

Proper Football Man
Watch your language boys, put your pants back on Charlie, no not on your head, and give the brandy enemas a rest Reidy, there’s ladies present. No offence, luv. I never touched her, honest, Jeff.

I’m not saying nothing about her in case Kenny is watching, Tommo, ‘cos I’m booked to play golf with him every day for the next 15 years.

For me, Clive, she’s a lovely girl. Can you say girl these days, Jeff? I think I was married to one, once, but I got away with it.

Obviously, no woman can be a PFM. Not even one with football in her DNA. That goes without saying. In the world of the PFM, women who are not, what they still call Dolly Birds, are frightening and possibly lesbians.

They exude awkwardness just having to be around women, especially outside the context of a casino or nightclub and if not buying them Lambrinis and showing them their watches, they basically don’t know what to do. They are especially awkward with women who know a lot about football, feeling their masculinity is being diminished and that the danger of saying something unwittingly, but massively inappropriate, is ever present. And there’s nothing frightens them more than getting caught up in a Twitter storm with Mary Beard.

Has she really got a beard, Gary?

They are far happier making jokes about ‘ladies’ not knowing offside rule, even though a lot don’t even know it themselves.

Was he active, Mark? Nobody knows any more, Motty.

So it’s a case of, a woman who knows a lot about football? Not for me, Clive.

But since the heinous business with Keysie and Andy-sie (which Kelly neatly skewered in a subsequent Tweet), everyone knows they’ve got to be on their best behaviour because you can’t say anything these days, and I only asked her if she was wearing a bra, anyway. No offence, Jeff. It’s just banter, innit? It’s a compliment, really.

They might conceptualize Kelly as a Proper Football Woman. Having grown up in a footballer environment, it would surely hold no fears for her, but as such, she would only be given the keys to the PFM executive washroom in order to clean up them things what the boys have done in there. The state of this place. Have you been eating Reidy’s pickled baby mice again, Merse?

That being said, as a PFW she’d get offered one of Reidy’s carefully honed ‘lady juice’ blends of oven cleaner, hair dye and hallucinogenic toad, served in an oven glove. Probably has her own shopping trolley too – ‘cos women love shopping, don’t they, Chaz? Could be useful. Trouble is you can’t hit a woman in the face and make out it’s a form of bonding, the way you can with a PFM.

And although there’s no chance of it happening, obviously the PFMs would love to see her emerging from Buxton hotspot, Big Muff at 4.27am with the former Miss North West Industrial Welding Torch Thighs and Torso of 1988, because the boys have heard about lasses like that and seen them in McAvennie’s magazines, even though they don’t know what they do in bed. No offence. I don’t want no trouble…we’ve all had a drink, lads…c’mon, let’s set fire to TC and see if we can throw him over a house.

Beyond the lighted stage
Lots of charity work, as befits someone who was brought up by a mother who hosts an annual Burns Night charity ball which raises over a million quid for cancer care, and a father who must have attended more charity golf days and gala dinners than any other human on earth. Someone (usually Alan Hansen), somewhere, is always playing golf with Kenny for a good cause.


Can't say I see much of her on TV as I don't watch the football league show very often but at times I catch her on the radio and she seems to do a pretty good job on there. I think the fact she comes from a football family helps her out as I doubt anyone inside the industry wants to deal with an angry Kenny Dalglish if they cross her.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:31 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:
Before we get going with handing out the gongs, it’s worth saying that it has been a brilliant year for football broadcast media. The standard at all levels has never been higher and the breadth of coverage never wider. All those years of campaigning for better football TV and radio has finally paid off, perhaps because today’s producers grew up, like us, groaning at the say-what-you-see, unthinking football guff that used to dominate the airwaves. Nowadays there’s something for everyone as football media thankfully moves away from being narrow and conservative, to being more diverse and progressive.

I firmly believe that in order to get the most out of football on the radio and television, you have to free yourself from the notion that the pundit or commentator who says what you believe is the best one. In football and life in general, all too often, confirmation of existing views is equated to intelligence, while disagreement means ignorance.

Anyway, here are my awards. They’re obviously not definitive, and I’m sure I’ve excluded some notable performers, but this is a genuine way of saying thank you to all these people who make our football lives joyful.


Best presenter – Kelly Cates
Absolutely nobody has been more of a pleasure to listen to this year. Has that special ability to put people at ease and encourage them to talk, like she’s your intelligent and funny friend. Full of football knowledge at all levels of the game (confirmed to me by an insider on the 5 Football League Show show) and delivers it with warmth and a chuckling good-nature which makes a tricky job sound, not only easy, but tremendous fun.

Always seems very relaxed and is both empathetic and interogative. More than capable of delivering an iron fist in the velvet glove when necessary, which sometimes catches the alpha male world of Proper Football Men off guard. She’s had so many high points this season, especially on the radio, but the two-hour special she presented on the Hillsborough verdict was a work of great broadcast art in its balance of empathy, erudition and emotion. And in the course of that, her gentle, probing interview with her dad was simply one of the most touching pieces of radio you’ll ever hear. Basically, just brilliant from first to last.

Joint Runners-up: Mark Chapman/ James Richardson. Can’t separate Chappers and AC Jimbo. Though very different, both are superb at what they do. Mark’s all encompassing ubiquity shouldn’t blind us to his talent. Blokeish but not conservatively so, his winding up of Steve Claridge on the Monday Night Club is always a pleasure and Sunday’s are uplifted by James’s easy, yet intelligent presentation on the European Football Show. He is a peerless football sophisticate.

Highly commended: Matt Smith, Lynsey Hipgrave, Gary Lineker


Best commentator – John Murray
Haydon Bridge’s finest, he’s reached the top of the tree by blending unstinting articulacy with high-pitched emotion. Not just a commentator, he’s now often referred ot as ‘Football Correspondent.’ Seems genuinely excited to be wherever he is. Has a wonderful positivity to what he does and seems entirely without cynicism, except in regard to value of social media. Wonderfully un-technological to the point where on Wednesday night, he thought the pre-game musical performers were hitting a laptop with a stick, seemingly unaware of electronic rhythm pads. An analogue man in a digital world is always comforting. Behind the mic he’s the perfect combination of research, energy and passion. Always a joy to listen to.

Runner-up: Ian Dennis. Has a rare grit and intensity to his gig. Bluff and straight-talking, his 5live commentary on the Liverpool v Dortmund game was a thing of visceral, thrilling excellence which will live long in the memory. It was probably the best single commentary of the entire season.

Highly commended: Darren Fletcher, Conor McNamarra, Alan Green


Best co-comm – David Pleat
Frankly, no-one can educate you about football like Pleaty. He’s an incredible encyclopaedia and knows the history of any given player; where he started, who coached him, what positions he’s played and how much he cost. And it’s all done off the top of his head. Plus, for as long as I can recall, he always says hello to the listener, which is just lovely manners. There’s simply no-one else like him. Absolutely peerless. His inability to correctly pronounce names just makes him even more endearing and adds welcome idiosyncrasy to proceedings. Even thinking about him while writing this has made me smile and I’m willing to bet you have too. Priceless.

Runner-up: Pat Nevin. Witty, intelligent, funny and insightful. Brings some sensible, some intelligence and some self-awareness to his gig. Also liable to make welcome reference to early 80s indie music. His experience on the pitch and in the boardroom is invaluable. Unlike so many, can hold his own in polite, educated society, outside of a football context.

Highly commended: Chris Waddle, Chris Sutton, Kevin Kilbane, Stan Collymore.


Best pundit – Graeme Souness
You don’t have to agree with Souey to appreciate his art. By art, I mean, his ability to cast a withering, narrow-eyed look of frustration and disgust. This year his critique of Arsenal players has been nothing less than magnificent, at times verging on accusing them of emasculating the game by wearing pink frilly panties. He seems to take Olivier Giroud’s existence almost as personal insult to his maleness.

He’s always strong on attitude, belief and the psychology of the game. Like no other ex-player he gives you a sense of what it’s like to play in a big game. His iron will and his fierceness are fires that still clearly burn within. Rarely smiles, so when he does, it feels like a gift.

When he says someone is ‘a proper player’ and mimes a forearm smash, that is quintessential Souey. And for a dude of his age, he still looks great. I grew up watching him at Ayresome Park leaning over players he’d just badly hurt, shouting at them for spilling their blood on to his nice clean boots. Things haven’t changed much. Thank god.

Runners up: Chris Sutton/Jamie Carragher – I can’t separate these two. Long a favourite in Scottish TV land, Sutton has come to the fore more this year on 5live as co-comm and pundit, where his harrumphing is just wonderful. You can almost hear him casting a bitter sneer or disparaging glare when someone says something he disagrees with. His degree of cynicism and general intolerance of any fannying around by anyone in any walk of life, let alone in football, makes him quite unique. Just like when he was a player, he can really annoy people and, perhaps perversely, I love that too. You never get the feeling he’s holding back or just trying to say the right thing. A wonderful Norfolk tick has him finishing sentences rhetorically and without a ‘t’ e.g. “isn’ there?” or, “hasn’ it?” Is also thoroughly amusing and self-deprecating when necessary.

Carra has filled Gary Neville’s primo Sky position really well and he’s upped his crisp articulation of the game and yet has lost none of his robin’s egg blue-eyed passion. I also like the Budweiser goals ad he does with Jamie and Ed. Good idea that.

Highly commended: Jermaine Jenas, Owen Hargreaves, Danny Murphy


Best newcomer – Danny Higginbotham
Well deserved in getting a lot of work these days. Articulate, sharp-eyed and doesn’t default to football’s over-used lexicon of expressions. Brings energy and enthusiasm. Definitely on an upward curve.

Runner-up: Charlie Adam. Speaks and looks like he’s not a mere 30 years old, but rather that he played in the 70s. At best on the radio when talking about the politics of the modern united nations dressing rooms. Needs to improve on tactical dissection but is a welcome new voice.


Best Journalist on the TV & Radio – Henry Winter
So distinct in his both his tone and his linguistic mannerisms, he has an almost otherworldly quality about him. His instinct to use an arcane reference, (e.g Red Adair, Devon Loch) which only someone over the age of 45 would appreciate, endears him. Also, in comparison to some, he clearly knows a massive amount about football at all levels. Even though his habit of pluralizing player names can grate, as can that slightly supercilious, privately-educated manner, but even so, I find I always have to listen to him and, more than that, trust his viewpoint as being at least well-thought out. Hearing him arguing with Shaun Custis is never not entertaining. Mind, those Times ads made your toes curl. Ouch.

Runner-up: Rory Smith. A regular on 5Live he brings a pleasing bluntness to proceedings and has none of the sulphurous air that some of the older journos seem clouded in. Intelligent without being elitist or self-regarding, he’s aware of football-speak, the PFM cabal and that a lot of people in football are stone cold idiots, all of which makes him a top performer. Sometimes feel like he’s biting his tongue at some of the more reactionary opinion spumes emanating from others.

Highly commended: Alyson Rudd, Amy Lawrence, Sam Wallace, Barry Glendenning.


Overseas specialist – Tim Vickery, Rafa Honigstein & Gab Marcotti
If you can’t enjoy this trifecta of sophisticated footballing brains, then you don’t like football. My only complaint is they’re not used to cast observations on English football often enough. All of them feel like your cleverer older brother and you’d better sit up and listen when they’re on, because you will learn something.


Best Football Show – 5live Monday Night Club
The winner because when push comes to shove, I quite simply enjoy radio more than TV. The Monday Night Club has a revolving cast of characters who, when it works best, paint from the full rainbow palette of football attitude. Be it the squeaky hysteria of Steve Claridge, the good-natured rationalising of Jermanine Jenas, the annoyed panting of Chris Sutton, or the louche passion of Ali McCoist, it’s all held together, usually by Mark Chapman, who, inbetween loud guffaws and winding up Claridge, acts of a radio ringmaster of the first water. Tremendous fun. The mix of weekend analysis, anecdote, upcoming game assessment, serious issue discussions, quiz questions and social media bits is consistently the perfect way to get a new week started.

Runner-up: BT Sport European Football Show. Peerless intelligent football entertainment, performed by people who know what they’re talking about. The masters degree in brain surgery, compared to Soccer Saturday’s CSE Grade 4 in woodwork, it combines actual insight into the European leagues with having a laugh. Perfect to watch with the first couple of drinks of a Sunday night session. We’re lucky to have it in our lives.

Highly recommended: Danny Kelly on Talksport, MOTD 1 & 2.


Welcome return – Andy Townsend
Popping up on 5live a lot this season has shown us all just what a good sort he is. Like a guitarist freed from the restrictions of the three-minute pop song, he’s been allowed to stretch out and improvise and, in doing so, has come into his own. If anything, he’s returned too well, Clive.


Most improved – Alan Shearer
There was a time when Shearer sat there with a big sh*t-eating grin, said ‘he’ll be disappointed with that” and proceeded to trouser a huge amount of money for the pleasure. But times have changed. For whatever reason, be they self-motivated or producer-led, he’s dropped many of the cliches and has gained, what once seemed well beyond him: gravitas. Especially so when talking about the mess at Newcastle United. It’s taken a lot time, but eventually Wor Al has begun to deliver the goods.


Most extraordinarily cunning linguist – Paul Merson
Communicates well, but in an almost child-like way, which doesn’t adhere to normal sentence construction. Uses repetition repeatedly Jeff, repeatedly, I mean repeatedly and doesn’t even seem to realise Jeff, it’s like he doesn’t realise…honest, I’m not being funny, it’s like he doesn’t even realise. Has an occasional outburst which threatens to require calming medication. And it’s all accompanied with rolling eyes and an expression that suggests a recent collision with a bus. It all leaves the viewer slack-jawed in astonishment. The football equivalent of an abstract impressionist painter in a world of representational art, Merse is never not entertaining.


Legend award – Mark Lawrenson
Lawro has been around the media for the best part of 25 years. Like Shearer, for too many years he appeared to get away without doing much work, unless you count saying “they’ll be fine” as work. But also like the Geordie, this year has been his best yet. Radio co-comms on big European games such as Liverpool’s Europa Cup Final have been detailed, excellent entertainment. He was on superb sharp-eyed form for the Europa Cup Final. You forget that he was one of the primo defenders of his generation and knows as much about the game as anyone. All the terrible jokes used to grate, but now seem heritage, as opposed to old-fashioned. Our football lives would be missing a bright colour without his half pundit, half musical hall act.


PFM of the year – Richard Keys
His Twitter account alone is a PFM lifestyle bible, or perhaps more accurately, an over-thumbed 1988 copy of Playboy magazine with some of the pages stuck together.


People’s awards
On Twitter, I asked you for your favourite presenter and pundit. The results were as follows:

Best Presenter: James Richardson
Best Pundit: Jamie Carragher

So that’s it. These (and others) are the people who create the warp and weft of our football media world and, frankly, I think we’re exceptionally well served. I even started to find Michael Owen entertaining once. Must be some strong medicine I’m on.

John Nicholson


Not sure I agree on the welcome return of Andy Townsend but on the radio as a pundit he's a lot better than he ever was as a co comms on ITV and he's a much more welcome return that Trevor Francis who's popped up again on BT Sport again this season for reasons that no one can quite understand (must be cheap).

For those of you who enjoy listening the podcasts the Monday Night Club is normally available as a podcast if you subscribe to the BBC football daily it's well worth a listen.

Agree on Shearer he's taken the gloves off a bit lately on MOTD and is giving the hard opinions you used to get from Hanson.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:30 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:
Not much in the way of interesting fashion statements on display this week. Luca Vialli sported another nice blue suit, Manu Petit at one point was wearing the sort of substantial button-down tab collar last seen on an Elvis jumpsuit in 1972. More pundits should wear jumpsuits. Nice that the Frenchman is still sticking with the early 90s record executive ponytail. Rio is still sticking with the buttoned up shirt thing. It’s starting to look as though he’s just forgotten to bring any ties. Roy Keane seems to be reverting to his leech gatherer of the moors, bearded freako look. The fact he’s got two symmetrical white patches actually makes it look like it’s been painted and not grown.

Some British ex-footballers have a strange relationship with the English language. When they’re not mispronouncing words, they’re inventing entirely new ones. This week John Hartson gave it the full booner and reinvented “anonymous” as “uneonymous”. Glenn Hoddle – a man with a long reputation of abusing the finest traditions of spoken English – made up the word “fatigueness”. Not sure why. We have lots of words for being tired and really didn’t need another, but thems the thing what Glenn does.

For Welsh reasons Dean Saunders pronounces “formula” as “formala”, and Deano was responsible for the best comment of the week when talking about Hal Robson-Kanu’s Cryuff turn, saying the defenders ‘have all gone for a crepe suzette.’ Wonderfully daft and somehow very 1970s.

‘What’s amazed me, not amazed me…” said Robbie Savage, at one point, presumably quickly contradicting himself before anyone else can. He also seems to get stuck saying “Chappers” at the end of every sentence, Chappers. Mind, he also said Wales had “three centre backs like men”. Which is fair enough, they do look like men and I had assumed they actually were.

Meanwhile, look who’s popped up on ITV. It’s celebrity “love-rat” Ryan Giggs, a man who can say the word “excited” in the least exciting way. With long pauses and lots of staring into the middle-distance as though trying to recall where he’d left an intimate item of clothing, Ryan was, in his way, an extraordinary performer. It was as if he and Roy Keane were strangers, and not team-mates for years. And Ryan has a voice much like the drone of a hurdy gurdy; kind of hypnotic and sleep-inducing. Presumably he’s about to appear on ITV2’s Love Island in order to boost his credibility as a potential manager and in that, it’ll probably be more successful than his pundit work to date.

But back to strange choices of words. Martin Keown referred to a 31-year-old player as “the young man”. Only in football can you be “young” at 31, or, if you’re a British manager, 51.
Martin also said he could “see the warrior” in Bonucci’s eyes, which does rather suggest the ex-Arsenal man has been drinking from the spiked kool-aid which might also explain why he said, when Pelle missed his penalty, “He’s got to be hitting the target from there”. Yes Martin, yes he does. You have successfully grabbed the whole point of the penalty.

But hang on, Frank Lampard has put down his cheesecake to tell us something we didn’t know. ‘Bad performances send you home,” said the ex-Chelsea dancer. And when asked who should be the next England manager he went for “a younger forward thinking manager….but the name is not jumping out.” It’s this level of detailed insight that makes us all feel we’re experts.

Similarly, Mark Bowen’s co-comm work on the Welsh semi-final struck new levels of “you don’t say” when he told us that Ronaldo is “dangerous from free-kicks” Weirdly this managed to be both stating the obvious and also wrong, as he hit another over the bar, registering over 40 major tournament attempts without a goal.

Danny Mills seemed to keep confusing himself when talking about Iceland, saying before the France game, “it’s only Iceland” before going on to say how they shouldn’t be underestimated, before underestimating them by saying “it’s only Iceland” again, as though he couldn’t quite settle on how to think about it. Very odd.

There was a bit of poetry from the always engaging Neil Lennon describing Gareth Bale as “a tropical plant in a hedgerow,” which actually doesn’t work as an analogy at all because a tropical plant isn’t better than a hedgerow, but merely different. And how would it survive? But anyway, you knew what he meant. And I like his ginger eyelashes and I don’t care who knows it.

The single finest thing of the week was ITV’s feature with Chris Coleman and others, talking about Gary Speed, who he’d known since aged 10. With a profound, dark-eyed brooding upset laid on top of barely suppressed emotion, you’d have had to have a heart of ice not to shed a tear. Coleman was absolutely immense.

So with just the final to sort out (weirdly broadcast on both channels simultaneously), who’s had the best tournament on the telly and radio?

I think everyone enjoyed Slaven Bilic for his animation, insight and ability to grab a man to make a point. Vialli’s performances have been full of smiling passion and charm coupled with very blue jackets.

For some reason Thierry Henry on the BBC is a creature transformed from the energyless, so-laid-back-he’s-asleep man that gigs for Sky. He’s been funny and entertaining on TV and very good value on the radio too. I suspect he just enjoyed the company he kept.

Neil Lennon has been quick-witted and amusing throughout too. Alan Shearer on England was gritty and had real heft, even if it was a job pitch. His upward curve towards being a Premier League pundit continues apace. Of course, Gary Lineker was his usual consummate, urbane, professional self. I’d just like to say how lovely it is to see Gary do these shows. We take him for granted, sometimes, but he dispenses good vibes, makes things friendly and good-natured, whilst delivering the technical side of broadcasting with a relaxed ease. Wonderful. Helluva tan, an’ all.

Rio Ferdinand has been a bit patchy. His pundit work reminds me of his early career as a player; long periods of excellence littered with lapses in concentration. But he does have flashes of peerless brilliance. His explanation of how Antoine Griezmann’s play as a 10 enhanced Olivier Giroud’s effectiveness, from the viewpoint of the problems it created for a defender, was short but enlightening and superbly delivered.

5live’s coverage has been, as ever, exemplary with Mark Chapman on especially superb form as the ringmaster of so many games, especially England. Props to Kelly Cates for doing the phone-ins with good humour and grace, which can’t be easy given the fact some callers are either heavily medicated, or have recently had a frontal lobe removed. Caroline Barker has had a great tournament too, making lots of jokes and generally taking the mick out of people.

A surprise hit with me has been Dean Saunders. He is such a rather gauche, unaffected bloke. His slightly dazed expression just makes me laugh, his emotion at Wales’ results, heart-warming.

Jens Lehmann was a unique presence, as though he was The Man Who Fell To Earth and we’d love to see more of him and his sibilant s’s.

It was no surprise that Lee Dixon would be ITV’s man of the tournament, especially once Slaven had gone back to the day job. But even so, it’s worth stating just what a star he is, capable of dissecting and disseminating how various in-play tactics have worked, but able to do so in an intelligent, accessible, warm and engaging way, even if Manu Petit does think he looks like Tin Tin. Proof not only the the good guys do sometimes win, and also that you don’t have to be a wacky personality to impress.

The occasional inclusion of European journalists on the BBC has been very welcome, especially the lovely Julien Laurens talking about France on the radio and doing a nice little piece on Griezmann for the TV. Rafa Honigstein at half time with Dan Walker in the France v Germany game was also a wonderful moment of insight. It is these specialist flavours that make the BBC’s football gravy so tasty, rich and spicy.

Another fine example was the half time feature in the France v Germany semi-final. Only the BBC would intersperse artfully presented quotes from French poets and philosophers with footage from the 1982 France v Germany game with (I’m told) an Agnes Obel soundtrack. Gary Lineker told me via Twitter that this was created by Andy Fraser (not the bass player from Free). It was a classy, wonderful work of visual art. Something which prickled the skin and elevated the soul, pushing the boundaries of what a sports programme can be. Stunning. Should win awards. In a world which increasingly knows the price of everything and the value of nothing, this was a blow against that especially evil empire.

It was an odd decision for ITV to have Louis Saha and Christian Karembeu standing somewhere, usually talking to Jacqui Oatley. They didn’t offer a lot really and it often seemed as the always excellent Jacqui (should have been in Pougers chair) was staring at them wondering what on earth they were on about and hoping it’d all be over soon.

My social media research consistently indicated widespread and across the board dissatisfaction with the performance of Hoddle and Savage above all others. The general view being that they’re relatively inarticulate, garble words, offer little insight beyond the obvious and have really been shown up by being around so many excellent co-workers. Similarly, there was disappointment in the undoubtedly very nice Peter Crouch, who just never really seemed to embrace the gig, and lolled in his seat like it was all too much effort, Lothar Matthaus wore one expression throughout and was clearly surplus to requirements, and the couple of times that Ryan Giggs has been on, he’s astonished many with his unremitting dullness.

Just to return to Hoddle. He’s very experienced on TV both as a co-comm and a pundit. He’s had a lot of time to get better and he clearly can’t. It’s not irrational bias against him, it’s just obvious that he’s not a good communicator. If the producers just did a bit of research they’d discover how poorly their booking is regarded and I’m willing to bet they could buy a lot better for a lot less. (Danny Higginbotham, please)

As you might know, I was disappointed by the complete lack of female pundits. I didn’t even see Eni Aluko. Diversity matters. We are all here. None of us are less than the rest.

But I do think at times there were too many pundits. Three on a panel plus a presenter is too many, especially on ITV with its disruptive ad breaks limiting discussion time.

Both TV stations had somewhat underwhelming intro graphics. ITV had put a lot of work in to their…well…whatever it was…but it seemed a bit insipid. The BBC’s was a fairly standard out-of-the-box affair. It’s not really important, though.

As ever 5live was the Premier Cru Chablis broadcaster. Their mix of ex-players, journalists and broadcasters is by far the most satisfying. Never afraid to be intelligent and educated, nor to be funny and populist, 5live paints from the full football rainbow. They have the finest commentators in John Murray and Conor McNamara, all presenters do a great job in being engaging and even tense TV performers seem to relax and open up on the radio. Even when people like Chris Waddle (who has been pronouncing penalty in the conventional manner, I note) and Danny Mills are spouting questionable notions, Alan Green is being sour-faced and Lawro is telling awful jokes, it’s still good fun and almost never aggravating. All have great qualities and are a pleasure to spend time with. Also, Mark is the only presenter to regularly represent and give weight to views that go against the Proper Football Man-type sloppy default thinking and provable delusions.

So it’s nearly over and if you’ve not had a good time in the presence of BBC and ITV’s TV and radio programmes, then you’ve not been trying hard enough. There has been much to roll around on, like a feline on cat mint, and very little grit in the football boot of life. It’s my ongoing view that we are living through a golden age of football broadcasting and Euro 2016 has done little to dissuade me of this view.

Too many spend too much time hating, when there is so much to love. And then there’s the football.

John Nicholson


Think the highlight for me was Bilic he was brilliant as a pundit very passionate and not afraid to have an opinion and talk tactics

Negative Lawrenson forced to go to another tournament he clearly isn't enjoying being at his cr*p gags have had long enough surely it's time for him to be retired.

The biased welsh love in between Savage, Hartson & Saunders got a bit annoying but what do you expect Savage did kind of catch himself a few times when doing the co comms but Hartson was having none of it maybe I don't notice the bias as much when I watch England but I'm sure they wind it in a bit


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:20 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:28 pm
Posts: 11549
Highscores: 12
Personally I don't mind Savage at all as a co-commentator. Watching Wales in the Euro's he actually seems balanced in terms of making calls on fouls etc. I've heard him more than once say a Welsh player has gone down too easily or something, something you'd pretty much never, ever, hear an English commentator say about an English player.

And I don't think you can criticise their enthusiasm for Wales doing well. That's what I want in a commentator. In the studio, sure I want to hear some proper punditry and analysis, but from commentators I don't mind bias at all, I want to hear them being passionate about their countries. Who wants to listen to someone being impartial just saying what they see? We're not blind, we know x has just passed to y. I love the passion and enthusiasm the more amateur co-commentators bring to the table.

_________________
Erik The Viking wrote:
I personally hope Corden dies in a house fire.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:36 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:
Monday Night Club? Monday Fight Club


“Is Bob Bradley better qualified than Steve Bruce or Ryan Giggs to get this job? I don’t think so.”

It was certainly a brave opening gambit from Chris Sutton. Speaking to BBC Radio 5 Live‘s Monday Night Club, the pundit made no attempt to hide his exasperation at Bob Bradley being appointed Swansea manager.


“I don’t really get it. Well, I do get it – they’ve got American owners now, haven’t they? That’s essentially why he’s got the job.”

Is Bob Bradley getting the Swansea job because of the club’s American owners really so different to Giggs being linked with it because he’s Welsh? Anyway, please continue, Chris.


“It was the right decision to change Guidolin. I think Swansea, for me, since Guidolin has been appointed have lost their identity, their way of playing, so they’ve been bold. They’ve made their decision early.

“I don’t have a problem with that. But how Bob Bradley gets this job I do not know.”

Let’s see. A management career spanning 19 years and over 500 professional games. Three-and-a-half decades of coaching at various levels. Spells with 11 different clubs and in five different countries. Five successful years in charge of the United States national team, a sequence which includes the 2010 World Cup, where he guided them to finishing above England in the group stages. We could go on.

Thankfully, we have Sutton’s partner in crime, Robbie Savage, for that.


“I’m with Chris on this one. Bob Bradley? What, Le Havre, I think they’ve got a game on Wednesday. I think they’re about 11th in Ligue 2.”

They’re fifth, Robbie. Three points behind leaders Stade de Reims.

Thankfully, Adrian Bevington, former Managing Director of the FA, arrives to provide some level-headed debate. Or at least try to provide some level-headed debate. A quite brilliant exchange then ensues.


“They missed out on promotion by one goal I think it was last year though, Robbie.”

“Yeah, they missed out.”

“Yeah.”

“They missed out. Missed out.”

*Laughter*

Sutton then interjects:


“Here’s the problem: What does he know more about the Premier League than Steve Bruce? Than Ryan Giggs? He clearly doesn’t.

“Ryan Giggs, people will say he’s had no experience, but where did Guardiola start?”

In steps host Mark Chapman, with an effortless riposte.


“With Barcelona B.”

It clearly leaves Sutton winded, but he manages to plough on regardless.


“Eh, well, okay. But Ryan Giggs was assistant manager at Manchester United.”

Chapman knows he has him; it’s like a lion hunting its prey.


“But that’s not being in charge, is it?”

Sutton comes out fighting:


“Well it’s not being in charge, but he’s coping with the likes of Wayne Rooney daily, and, you know, big name players. He can handle Swansea.”

Give it Giggsy until the end of the season. He’s ‘coped with the likes of Wayne Rooney’ – a man he is presumably good friends with, having played with him at Manchester United, as an assistant manager.

Sod the tactics and all that, because Giggs can handle the egos of Leon Britton and Stephen Kingsley.



Oh, but there’s more…
If you thought that was all we had from the Monday Night Club debate, you are sorely mistaken. Because after a few minutes, Danny Mills enters the ring. And he smells blood.


“A lot of people say, ‘Well, Giggs, he’s got no experience, he doesn’t understand’. Where is Giggs going to start?”

League Two? Manchester United’s reserves? Actually coaching elsewhere? Abroad? Not immediately in the Premier League?


“If he drops down into League Two, League One, the Championship, he’s got no experience of that either.”

Well, just make him the bloody Prime Minister then.


“He knows the Premier League more than anything else. So actually, the Premier League might be his best start.”

He “knows” the Premier League as a player; he “knows” the Premier League as an assistant manager under two failed regimes; he does not “know” the Premier League as a manager.

Not to be upstaged, Savage re-enters the fray. And this time he comes armed with knowledge. And opinions. Actually, forget that first one. He comes armed with opinions.


“If you need to interview Ryan Giggs for a job at this stage, you should know what Ryan Giggs is about as a player.”

Jesus. We know what Diego Maradona was “about as a player”. He was bloody brilliant, and a damn sight better than Giggs was. That did not make him a good manager, just as it does not necessarily mean the Welshman is the next Sir Alex Ferguson. Swansea’s owners are fools. Interviewing Giggs? Did you not see his goal in the 1999 FA Cup semi-final?

Frankly, Mediawatch has to end here. The podcast is an hour and a half long; we listened to just 13 minutes of it. That was more than enough.

We will conclude with Sutton taking us to the top of the mountain of Proper Football Man punditry: ‘Wot about us poor Brits?’


“Is the fact that a British coach cannot get the Swansea job, is that not a snobbery against British managers?” he asks.

“Because I don’t get it. The argument against Bradley, and I wish him well, is that does he know about the Premier League in the current circumstances? He’s been in France, he’s been in Norway, he’s been in Egypt. What does he know more than Ryan Giggs? Than Steve Bruce? Than Michael O’Neill? He doesn’t.”

Michael O’Neill will be delighted about the publicity.

When put to him that Bradley must know more about management as a whole than Giggs, Sutton responds:


“I do not buy that whatsoever. He has more experience in management. He’s managed for a long time. Okay. Does he know more about the Premier League than Ryan Giggs?”

Bob Bradley might not be a success at Swansea, but surely he has more chance than Giggs would have (other than in terms of treatment by certain sections of the media). The former has managed in five different countries; the latter has managed four games throughout his professional coaching career. And one of those was a loss to a Gus Poyet-managed Sunderland.

We give up. If you want to listen to the whole thing, a) something is wrong with you, and b) the link is here. It is quite something.


It was quite laughable a load of guys basically saying give one of our mates the job not some bloody foreigner


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:54 pm 
Offline
General of the Army
General of the Army

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 31162
Location: Milton Keynes
Quote:
Advice of the day
“Sell Payet for £30m, and then go out and buy Martial for £20m, who is a 21-year-old kid” – Paul Merson offers West Ham some sage advice on Sky Sports.

It really is as simple as that.


It's really not hard to work out how this guy blew all his money and became a gambling addict.

So we have 2 players who came to England and had huge seasons last year and have struggled a bit this season one of them is in his early 20's and cost £40m the other is in his late 20's and cost £15m so Payet's value doubled and Martial's halfed on the basis of 1 season?

Thanks for that one Paul lets hope the bosses at Sky don't notice this next time your contract is up for renewal if he goes in alone he'll probably end up getting a 50% wage cut and thinking it's a good deal.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punditary: A Lost Art?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:12 am
Posts: 10116
You hlgotta see the video to see how dumb he looked ..someone was after him he didnt even knew it was sevilla or it was loan move ..

_________________
pakrooney wrote:

So true mate ...he is consistently inconsistent throughout his united career ..but what if he turns consistent ..he will get around 40 goals...ATM im waiting for that time as his age is 24/25 :wait: ... :|
on Rooney ,Jan 16th, ..and as they rest is history


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron